Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. In John 14:6, Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” The goal of Anchored by Truth is to encourage everyone to grow in the Christian faith by anchoring themselves to the secure truth found in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible word of God.

Script:

The rich man also died and was buried. He went to hell and was suffering terribly. … he said to Abraham, “Have pity on me! … I'm suffering terribly in this fire.”

Luke, Chapter 16, verse 23, Contemporary English Version

VK: Hello! I’m Victoria K. Welcome to Anchored by Truth brought to you by Crystal Sea Books. We’re very happy to be with you again. Today on Anchored by Truth we’re going to continue the series we began last time that we are calling this series “The Seriousness of Sin.” This may very well be the most important series that we have ever done because of the biggest challenges confronting Christianity today is a determined attempt to eradicate the concept of sin. We live in a day and time that shuns the idea that there could be a holy God who has given commands to mankind and that He will hold people accountable when they violate those commands. So, we are going to spend several episodes of Anchored by Truth reaffirming that not only does the Bible firmly teach the reality of sin, but also that our ordinary life experiences ratify that sin is a continuing plague and problem for all of us. In the studio as we continue our series we have RD Fierro who is an author and the founder of Crystal Sea Books. RD, why don’t you give us a brief overview of some of the big ideas that we discussed last time?

RD: Well, one idea we covered, as you just mentioned, is there are many people today who vehemently disagree that sin even exists. Our broader culture wants to do away with the idea of sin because the concept of sin affirms the existence of God and affirms not only that God exists but also that God has established obligations to which all people are subject. And a third concept that applies to the concept of sin is that of failure – and not just failure but willful failure, willful disobedience. These three elements, at a minimum, all make the notion of sin a very unpopular notion is a society that believes reality is so malleable that there are dozens of genders. As some commentators have put it, when we believe we can establish our own reality the next step is to see ourselves as God. That’s all nonsense, of course, but all we have to do is look around and we see that people are starting to buy into the nonsense. It’s dangerous and eternally deadly.

VK: People have chased the idea that they can be like God ever since Satan first tempted Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. In Genesis, chapter 3, verse 5 we hear Satan saying to Eve, “God understands what will happen on the day you eat fruit from [the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil]. You will see what you have done, and you will know the difference between right and wrong, just as God does.” That’s from the Contemporary English Version.

RD: Right. People, especially in the west, find the idea of obligatory standards and commands one of the most objectionable ideas possible. In previous decades people at least had a basic understanding that the universe, the created order, could not exist without a Creator. God’s necessity as the Creator formed a common starting point for just about all world views. But today we have embraced deep time, evolution, and uniformitarianism as concepts to explain the universe’s appearance as it is. We have thereby done away with the necessity to believe in God as the Creator much less in God as the ultimate lawgiver.

VK: As the prominent atheist Richard Dawkins put it in his book The Blind Watchmaker, “Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.”

RD: Sadly, yes. So, do away with God as Creator and you’ve done away with God as Lawgiver. Do away with God and you do away with any transcendent moral or ethical standards that bind human behavior. Do away with standards and you’ve done away with the possibility that you might fail those standards or that anyone might judge you and assign consequences for that failure. So, in one short sequence of thought you have done away with sin.

VK: This is one reason that what some term “the battle for the beginning” is so important. When God is replaced by evolutionary thought the door to all kinds of mischief swings wide open.

RD: Yes. But the door that is swinging open is actually the gate to hell. The God of the Bible is a perfectly sovereign, holy, and just God. He has set standards and given commands to the creature He created in His image. The commission of the first sin by a man and woman resulted in the loss of an earthly Paradise. The commission of all subsequent sins creates the risk of people losing an eternal Paradise. That’s why we are doing this series. We have all lost that original earthly paradise. We don’t want people losing out on an eternal one also.

VK: So, today we want to talk about what the Bible tells us is in store for those who do forsake their eternal paradise – who are condemned to hell as a consequence of their sin.

RD: Right. There is a lot at stake –an immeasurable amount – when people don’t understand the seriousness of sin. Actually, the simple fact that Jesus had to die on the cross to atone for our sins should be all that we need to understand just how serious sin is. The eternal, almighty Son of God had to leave a throne He had occupied for all eternity, come to earth to assume a human nature, be born in humble circumstances, and then die a miserable death of the worst kind just to make our delivery from sin possible. Just thinking about that straightforward fact ought to be all that we need to say about how serious sin really is.

VK: But today, it’s not. As we have mentioned many people today don’t believe in God. They don’t believe in the inspired, inerrant, and infallible Word of God, the Bible, and even many who do believe in God and the Bible don’t acknowledge the reality of sin and hell. They allegorize the parts of the Bible that plainly talk about hell or treat them as poetic moral lessons designed to teach but without any underlying substantive reality. But, we might ask, if there is no corresponding, underlying reality that is horrible then why would the so-called moral lesson have any moral value or meaning? We warn children about the consequences of making bad decisions because the consequences are real. The child who touches the hot stove knows that the lesson “don’t touch” was important. The consequence reinforces the importance of the lesson. But the child who is told not to touch the stove and touches when it’s cold learns nothing. Or worse the child forms the very dangerous false idea that the stove may be touched at any time without repercussions. If hell is not real with real suffering then of what value is a moral lesson that uses hell as a potential consequence.

RD: As I sometimes say in our Life Lessons with a Laugh, “exactamundo.” A little thinking quickly tells you that there must be a real place that possesses the attributes of hell otherwise the idea of hell is of little to no value in teaching a moral lesson. So, the cynics who doubt the Bible’s descriptions of hell as being a literal place are just being silly when they say that the idea of hell was just a way of trying to convey a moral imperative. But there is another and even more serious reason that we cannot reasonably allegorize or diminish the reality of hell.

VK: What is that?

RD: Because the person in the Bible that talked the most about hell – from whom we get the most information about hell – is Jesus. So, we can’t dismiss the reality of hell without dismissing the sinlessness of Jesus.

VK: For instance, in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 13, verses 49 and 50 Jesus said, “That is the way it will be at the end of the world. The angels will come and separate the wicked people from the righteous, throwing the wicked into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” In the Gospel of Mark, chapter 9, verses 47 and 48 Jesus said, “It’s better to enter the Kingdom of God with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, ‘where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.’” And in the Gospel of Matthew, chapter 5, verse 22 Jesus said, “But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” These are just examples of some things that Jesus said about hell.

RD: No one in the Bible talked more about hell than Jesus. That makes sense because Jesus mission on the earth was to provide the means by which sinful people could avoid hell as their eternal destiny. His mission would have made absolutely no sense if hell didn’t exist as a real place and a real possibility. And if Jesus had somehow just been threatening people with a non-existent penalty he would have been the opposite of a great teacher or a good man. And He certainly could not have been the sinless Savior if he had lied to people so many times and on such a serious subject. But since hell is real Jesus had every reason to mention it frequently during his teaching.

VK: Just those few verses show how remarkable it is for anyone who claims to be a Christian to doubt that hell exists as a literal place. It is one thing for an unbeliever to doubt whether hell is real, but it is another thing for a Christian to do so. Literally, our salvation depends on whether Jesus was right about hell being a place of real terror and torment. If Jesus was mistaken about hell or He lied about it that would mean Jesus could be wrong or He sinned. But God can do neither. For Jesus to be our Savior He must be fully divine as well as fully human. God cannot be wrong or sin. Fortunately, our salvation is intact because Jesus was not wrong about hell and He was being straight when He warned His audiences to fear it.

RD: Right. Some people will object to the reality of hell under the assertion that “a loving God could never send anyone to hell.” But what those people miss is that God is holy and just besides being loving. A just God cannot not punish evil and rebellion.

VK: And there is plenty of evil and rebellion in this world.

RD: Amen. A perfectly just God (which God is) must punish rebellion, sin, and evil. A holy God cannot tolerate unrighteousness or wickedness in His sight or presence and God does not. Even with respect to the redeemed God has already vindicated His just and holy nature by punishing someone for the sins of the redeemed. It’s just that Jesus has already borne the punishment for the sins of His people. When the Bible says that Jesus “propitiated” our sins it means He willingly accepted the punishment that was due to us and so restored our holy status in the sight of God. The American Heritage Dictionary defines “propitiation “to gain or regain the goodwill or favor of; appease.” As some commentators have phrased it, “God saved us from Himself, for Himself, by Himself.”

VK: So, for the redeemed God has already punished their sin through Jesus. That’s why we can say that we possess the righteousness of Christ. Jesus accepted the punishment that we deserve so we can receive the rewards that He deserved. A righteous God cannot punish us because Jesus has already been punished for us. But the story is different for those who reject Jesus’ offer of salvation. Since they refuse to allow Jesus sacrifice to apply to them the will have to suffer for their own sins. But a finite man can never repay an infinite sin debt. So, their repayment attempt must last for all eternity.

RD: So, the people who say a loving God would never send anyone to hell are correct. God is loving and God has expressed that love through the sacrifice that Jesus made for us. But to reject Jesus is to reject God’s love and mercy. Those who are unwilling to be examples of God’s mercy and grace will automatically be examples of God’s perfect justice. And that justice demands punishment for sin.

VK: So, for people the stakes – the stakes of sin - really don’t get any higher than that. As we said last time, strictly speaking nothing can separate us from God’s presence. God is omnipresent. He is present at all times and all places including hell. But hell is where God’s wrath is eternally present not His goodness, His kindness. Sin separates us from God’s favor and blessing and that is the danger that we must all consider. But in a very real sense God is not sending anyone to hell. God is simply honoring the choice they are making when they reject His offer of mercy. God is willing to save everyone. 2 (second) Peter, chapter 3, verse 9 puts it this way. “The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.” That’s from the New Living Translation.

RD: God wants everyone to repent. All who repent and accept Christ are saved. Those who repent receive the consequences of their choice – a life for all eternity with God and Jesus where they live, which is in heaven. Those who reject Christ receive the consequences of their choice. They live for all eternity away from the blessings of heaven and with the misery of hell. C.S. Lewis famously said in his book The Problem of Pain that the “gates to hell are locked from the inside.” Said differently, hell is a consequence of our choices not a consequence of our composition.

VK: You are alluding to the fact that hell was not a necessary part of our physical creation. In Genesis, chapter 1, verse 31 we hear that, “Then God looked over all he had made, and he saw that it was very good!” That’s from the New Living Translation. Well, God would not have pronounced everything “very good” if sin and death were present in the original creation. They weren’t. Sin entered the world through Satan’s temptation and death entered the world because of sin. The entrance of sin made the reality of hell an inevitable consequence for those who choose to remain in their sin.

RD: So, all of this points out why we need to soberly and honestly discuss the seriousness of sin. Sin and hell are inextricably linked. Sin separates from man from God’s goodness. Those who regret that separation can seek reconciliation through Jesus. That’s why we open every show of Anchored by Truth with the quote from Jesus in John 14:6. “I am the way, the truth, and the life.” Jesus is the way to salvation and heaven. Despite the objections of the world Jesus is the only way to salvation. So, when people reject Jesus they are announcing to the world their preference to continue their separation from God and Jesus. As someone has wryly observed to force an unrepentant sinner to be in heaven in the immediate presence of God’s face would be hell for that person. As some have put it, in the end there are only two choices. There are those who say to God, “thy will be done.” And there are those to whom God says, “thy will be done.”

VK: God’s will as we heard in 2 Peter 3:9 is for everyone to come to repentance and thereby go to heaven. But I suppose there are those who say “well, why doesn’t God just end the existence of anyone who rejects Him?” In other words, wouldn’t oblivion just be an alternative to consigning people to a place where, in Jesus’ words, “where the maggots never die and the fire never goes out.”

RD: Well, I suppose the immediate response to someone who suggests that oblivion would be preferable to an eternity in hell would be to ask them, “how do you know?” It’s pretty obvious those recommending oblivion are still around. And there is a basic category error that is present in their assertion – that nothing is better than something. Oblivion would be non-existence. Is non-existence better than existence? We can’t ask the non-existent.

VK: Because they don’t exist. Fair point.

RD: But there is another problem with the assertion that oblivion is a preferable alternative to hell for the rebellious. It diminishes the dignity of human beings. When God made man He made man His image bearer. With that special status came the ability to reason, understand the world around him, and make free choices. Adam and Eve made the free choice to eat from the one tree that was off limits. And if we are being honest we would all have to admit that we have all freely sinned of our own free choice. We may not like the consequences of our sin but we have all chosen to sin. Hell is one of the consequences of our sin. As dire and sad as it may be God confirms the fact that He will respect the consequences of man’s free choices.

VK: God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The first consequence of their rebellion fell on an innocent animal. This was a foreshadowing of the fact that one day the consequences of their sin would be borne by the innocent Lamb of God. But another consequence of their rebellion was that they were exiled from earthly paradise - Eden. That foreshadowed that one day some of their descendants would be exiled from the heavenly paradise that surrounds God’s throne. Actions have consequences. Adam and Eve found that out. Unfortunately, those who impenitently reject Jesus offer of salvation will also find out that their rejection has consequences.

RD: Yes. If God had left Adam and Eve in Eden they would have rightly learned that they could ignore God’s commands without consequence. That would exhibit blatant disrespect for God. But Adam and Eve bore God’s image. Disrespect for the Image Creator also diminishes the image bearer. Just as if we have a bruise and look at ourselves in the mirror we don’t just see our image we see our bruise. Well, a perfectly holy, infinite Being can’t tolerate rebellion, disrespect, or be bruised. So, one of the consequences of Adam and Eve’s rebellion besides being cast out of Eden was to create the possibility of eternal damnation. Similarly, Adam and Eve would have been far less protected from the elements if they had not accepted God’s provision for covering their nakedness – the skin of the innocent animal.

VK: I see what you’re getting at. Adam and Eve’s actions in the garden set off a chain of consequences. The skin of the innocent animal partially offset as least some of the consequence. Jesus’ death as an atonement for sin offsets the consequences of sin, one of which is hell, but only partially – only for those who accept Christ as their Savior. Jesus’ sacrifice is sufficient to offset the sins of everyone and God would like that – but many people, even today, continue to reject Jesus of their own free will. God permits free choice but as you say in your Christmas epic poem The Golden Tree: Eagle Enigma “[God] knows that if we [make the wrong choice] we'll suffer though we had good intent. For the [God] permits free choice even when it brings sad events.”

RD: Yes. If God simply obliterated everyone who rebels against Him He would be treating people differently. The people in heaven would receive the consequences of their choice to accept Christ’s provision for their sin. And those consequences will go on for all eternity. But the people obliterated would not receive eternal consequences of their choice because they would go out of existence. It is absolutely true that the experiences of the two groups are going to be dramatically different but the duration of the experiences is going to be identical – all of eternity. But that’s why we do what we do on Anchored by Truth. There is no need for anyone listening to ever suffer in hell. Avoiding hell is as simple as acknowledging their sin and accepting Jesus’ offer of salvation.

VK: I am always reminded of the thief on the cross next to Jesus. In the Gospel of Luke, chapter 23, verse 42 where we hear “Then [the thief] said, ‘Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.’ And Jesus replied, ‘I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise.’” Jesus didn’t tell the thief to do anything or be anything. The thief recognized that Jesus could save him and simply announced that tiny bit of faith. His faith was instantly rewarded by Jesus with the promise that the thief would be with Him that day in paradise. Eden restored for one lost sinner.

RD: Yes. And Eden can be restored for all lost sinners. Hell is not just a possibility, it is a certainty for all who reject Jesus. So, why do that? Why risk eternal fire when there is no need. Jesus would happily save every person alive on the earth today, every person who has ever lived. It is the stubborn refusal to acknowledge that we have rebelled that consigns people to hell. And that alone tells us how serious sin is. Sin is so serious that the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity left His eternal throne to remove the need for anyone to endure hell. Yet we not only treat sin lightly today, many people try to deny its existence and reality entirely.

VK: So, the big idea that we wanted to introduce in this series is that sin is seriousness. Sin’s seriousness is revealed by looking at the provisions that God has made to change the consequence of our sin from eternal damnation to eternal blessing. The stakes of sin have been addressed by Jesus. The question for us is whether we will accept the provisions that He made for us or stubbornly continue to insist that sin is just an outdated concept with no relevance to our modern world. This sounds like a great time to pray. Since we have just been talking about the fact that there are many people who have yet to acknowledge the fact that they are separated from God, today let’s listen to a prayer for the spiritually lost. Peter told us that God wants everyone to come to repentance. This prayer is us setting our hearts in agreement with the Apostle that God’s gracious offer of salvation has not changed for over 2,000 years.

---- PRAYER FOR THE SPIRITUALLY LOST

VK: We’d like to remind our audience that a lot of our radio episodes are linked together in series of topics so if they missed any episodes or if they just want to hear one again, all of these episodes are available on your favorite podcast app. To find them just search on “Anchored by Truth by Crystal Sea Books.”

If you’d like to hear more, try out crystalseabooks.com where “We’re not perfect but our Boss is!”

(Opening Bible Quote from the Contemporary English Version)

Luke, Chapter 16, verse 23, Contemporary English Version