The Special Lists

Tal Morr spent 15 years earning the reputation he wanted, and he still says the road cost him.

Dr. Tal Morr is a prosthodontist in Aventura, Florida, and a speaker known for calling out anything he doesn't buy. Cameron Full, Dr. Jason Souyias and Dr. Michael Seda ask what the University of Washington prosthodontics program taught him and what it left out.

Tal lays out three paths early in a career: refuse to compromise on excellence, work for the money, or land somewhere in the middle. He chose excellence, paid for it in slow profitability, and explains why he wouldn't change it, even after turning down a partnership with friends whose group now runs six dentists across three offices.

The exit-strategy lesson comes straight from that choice. Tal made everything about himself, wants to retire by 65, and says he should have brought in an associate to mentor years ago.

Tal also explains why he handles patient education himself and why he starts with analog impressions and old-school lab technicians before going digital.

Guest
Tal Morr, DMD, MSD is a prosthodontist who runs TM Prosthodontics, a private practice in Aventura, Florida, focused on aesthetic, implant and complex restorative dentistry. He earned his degree in biology at the University of Florida, graduated summa cum laude from Tufts University School of Dental Medicine, and completed his prosthodontics training at the University of Washington.

He lectures around the world, has authored book chapters and journal articles on aesthetics, porcelain veneers and implants, and has received the Saul Schluger Award from the Seattle Study Club.

Learn more about Dr. Morr's practice: TM Prosthodontics.

Questions answered by this episode:

1. Should a young dentist choose excellence or a faster path to profit?
2. How long does it take to build a high-end solo dental practice?
3. Does refusing to compromise on quality slow down practice profitability?
4. What do prosthodontics residencies teach and not teach about running a business?
5. Why is a solo practice built around one dentist hard to sell?
6. When should a dentist bring in an associate to plan an exit strategy?
7. How do you know if a group practice fits your personality before you join?
8. Is an analog impression more accurate than a digital scan?
9. Are intraoral scanners and printers as accurate as conventional techniques?
10. How can AI note-taking tools help dentists with records and referral emails?

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Chris Mann
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

After Dr. Bob Margeas turned down multiple offers from dental service organizations, he built a five-practice holding company that pays him full value for Iowa Dental Group without forcing him to keep working to earn it.

Dr. Margeas has run Iowa Dental Group in Des Moines for nearly four decades, and he's spent the last several years handing it off — first by cutting back his own days, then by selling a piece of the practice to the two associates he trained from their first year out of dental school.

He walks through the structure: a holding company called Videnta that buys pieces of practices from dentists who don't want a straight DSO buyout, services the debt out of practice profit, and is contractually obligated to buy back whatever's left when the owner is ready to fully step away.

He shares the back-of-envelope math he uses to value a practice: pay everyone in the office 35% of collections, see what profit is left over to service debt, and that's what the practice is worth.

He credits the mentor who sold him his own practice for less than it appraised for, built him a custom office with an elevator he wouldn't need for 20 years, and kept a cancer diagnosis quiet rather than ruin a course he'd promised to teach.

Plus: getting fired from his first two associate jobs, a Sony Trinitron television that outlasted a decade of retirement contributions, and why he still believes it's time in the market, not timing it, that builds real wealth.

Guest
Dr. Bob Margeas has run a private restorative and implant practice in Des Moines, Iowa, since earning his DDS from the University of Iowa College of Dentistry in 1986. He is Editor in Chief of Inside Dentistry, serves on the Editorial Board of Compendium, and is an adjunct professor in the Department of Operative Dentistry at his alma mater.

He holds board certification from the American Board of Operative Dentistry and diplomate status with the American Board of Aesthetic Dentistry, and Incisal Edge Magazine named him one of the "32 Most Influential People in Dentistry" in 2024.

In recent years he restructured his ownership of Iowa Dental Group, merging it with several other Iowa practices under a shared holding company while bringing two associates he mentored from dental school into ownership.

Learn more about Dr. Margeas and Iowa Dental Group: iowadentalgroup.com.

Connect with Bob on LinkedIn.

Questions answered by this episode:

1. How do I value my dental practice before selling it?
2. What is a holding company alternative to a straight DSO sale?
3. How do I transition my dental practice to an associate without selling to a DSO?
4. When should I start planning my dental practice exit?
5. Should I take a DSO offer or sell part of my practice to an associate?
6. What does it mean to "make yourself irrelevant" in your own practice?
7. How do I choose the right associate to buy into my practice?
8. Should I set up a cash balance plan as a dentist?
9. How do I find a mentor in dentistry?
10. What's the difference between timing the market and time in the market for retirement savings?

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts
Cameron Full — Co-Founder of Referral LabCameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries. 
Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn.

Jason Souyias, DDS — Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral LabDr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.
More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias.

Michael Seda, DMD, MS — Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral LabA clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.
More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda.
Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio.

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Chris Mann
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

Most practice owners hit a point where the systems that got them here start cracking under more patients, more staff, and more decisions that used to be simple.

Dr. Marq Sams leads the Implant & Perio Center of Kansas in Wichita and joins co-hosts Cameron Full, Dr. Jason Souyias, and Dr. Michael Seda to talk about what actually changes once a practice starts scaling.

Marq built his own Seattle Study Club chapter, the C.L.U.B., by handpicking members for character over convenience, and he explains why so many study clubs struggle to keep people showing up.

He walks through the sinus lift case early in his career that taught him to slow down and learn a technique before chasing speed, plus the pre-surgery list habit his whole team still relies on.

The conversation turns to what scaling actually reveals in a leader — the training gaps, the accountability conversations people avoid, and why a title on a door doesn't make anyone a leader.

Marq also previews what he'll cover at the Dental Wellness Forum this October, drawing on the car accident that reshaped how he treats patients today.

Guest

Marq Sams, DMD, MS
Dr. Marq Sams is a board-certified periodontist and Diplomate of the American Board of Periodontology who leads the Implant & Perio Center of Kansas, with two locations in Wichita. He earned his DMD from the University of Louisville School of Dentistry in 2006 and completed his periodontics certificate and MS in oral biology in 2010. The Wichita Dental District Society named him Dentist of the Year in 2019, and he was recognized among the nation's "40 Under 40" young dental practitioners in 2018. An international speaker on implant dentistry, Dr. Sams also founded and leads his own Seattle Study Club chapter built around collaboration, mentorship, and community.

Learn more about Dr. Sams and the Implant & Perio Center of Kansas: https://wichitaperiodontists.com/meet-dr-sams/.

Questions answered by this episode:

1. How do I build a dental study club people actually show up to?
2. What character traits should I look for when inviting members to a study club?
3. Why does participation drop off in dental continuing education groups?
4. How long does it really take to master a new surgical technique?
5. What does scaling a dental practice expose about its leader?
6. How do I hold my dental team accountable without micromanaging?
7. Why doesn't a title make someone a leader in a dental practice?
8. How do I learn the business side of running a periodontal or implant practice?
9. What's a good system for documenting team communication in a dental office?
10. How can reviewing past surgical cases improve clinical outcomes?

About The Special Lists

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries. 

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn.

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias.

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. His education spans a degree in Psychobiology from UCLA, a DMD from Harvard University, and a Master's in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda.

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio.

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Chris Mann
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang

Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

To celebrate the show's first anniversary, Cameron Full, Dr. Jason Souyias, and Dr. Michael Seda bring you a special list of moments from year one.

The reward for good work is... more work. And solving one problem just shows you the next one.

Dr. Souyias opens with the lesson that killed his autopilot fantasy: he fixed a four-month consult backlog, got it down to three weeks, and immediately found the next fire.

On teams and leadership: Dr. James Woodyard's masterclass in handling a complainer (pull up chairs, bring in the whole team), Geri Gottlieb on why your culture is exactly whatever you're tolerating, and Dr. Justin Zalewsky on why a CEO's real job is "don't hit the iceberg."

On the business: Dr. Rob Ritter's "integrity marketing" take on branding (patients notice the sneakers), Dr. Jeffrey Burch's partnership model — 23 of 30 doctors retained over 18 years — and his buckets rule for practice, family, and the thing that fills you back up.

On finding your people: Dr. Mitchel Godat on the mastermind that ended his "I've hit my apex" phase eight years in, Dr. Krupa Patel on demanding a mentor who lights the path, and Mike Gergen's cure for analysis by paralysis — just go to the course. Plus Dr. Tracey Nguyen on making airway dentistry catch on, Dr. Josh Austin on three-minute digital simulations that get patients to yes, and Dr. Eman Traynor's note to her younger, anxious self: it's all going to be okay.

Featuring

Voices from year one: Dr. James Woodyard, Dr. Jennifer Doobrow, Dr. Rob Ritter, Dr. Mitchel Godat, Dr. Chris Catalano, Dr. Jason Stoner, Dr. Krupa Patel, Rashed Din, Dr. Nicole Saldua, Dr. Leonard Cochrane, Dr. Deana Cook, Dr. Jeffrey Burch, Mike Gergen, Dr. David Lee Hill, Dr. Justin Zalewsky, Geri Gottlieb, Dr. Tracey Nguyen, Dr. Andrew Skasko, Dr. Eman Traynor, Dr. Gregg Kinzer, Dr. Adam McClellan, Andrew Jowett, Dr. Josh Austin, and Dr. Hunter Dawson.

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Schuyler Jeffress
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

A large DSO spends about $180k developing a single dentist in their first two years out of school. Almost all of it goes to three procedures — endo, aligners, and implant placement — and none of it goes to the one skill that actually fills a schedule: getting the person in the chair to say yes.

Dr. Hunter Dawson, a Charlotte prosthodontist who lectures internationally on comprehensive diagnosis, joins Cameron Full, Dr. Jason Souyias, and Dr. Michael Seda to talk through the paper he is writing — "The Death of the Specialist" — and why the people arriving at specialty practices are sicker, more complex, and harder to manage than they were a decade ago.

Dawson names the two forces behind the shift: big companies training 130,000 general dentists to do the procedures specialists used to own, and new graduates carrying school debt that pushes them into advanced treatment before they are ready. His fix is not more services. It is learning to diagnose comprehensively and communicate well enough that people accept the treatment they actually need.

Souyias and Dawson get specific about how a specialist builds a referral network that survives a retirement, why the mentor-mentee relationship that used to come with buying a practice has quietly disappeared, and why tracking your own results is the cheapest way to find out whether you are as good as you think you are.

Dawson also shares the idea behind the book he says he will write someday — "The Patient on the Ceiling," the cases that keep you up at night — and how he keeps a full practice, five kids, and a national lecture schedule from draining one another.

Guest

Dr. Hunter Dawson is a prosthodontist at Envision Dental Implant Center in Charlotte, North Carolina, where he focuses on the diagnosis and treatment planning of terminal dentition using digital technology. He earned his DMD, Advanced Education in Prosthodontics, and Master of Science in Dentistry at the University of Louisville School of Dentistry, and has practiced in North Carolina since 2017. A published author and Spear Digest contributor, he lectures internationally on comprehensive diagnosis, digital implant workflows, and full arch reconstruction for organizations including Straumann, the ITI, Spear, and Seattle Study Club. His research has centered on implant abutment materials and design, and his work has earned the Private Practice Prosthodontist Award.

Learn more about Dr. Hunter Dawson: envisiondentalimplants.com/providers/dr-hunter-dawson

Follow Hunter on Instagram @hunter_dawson_dmd

Questions answered by this episode:

1. Why are dental specialists seeing more complex cases than they used to?
2. How do I raise my case acceptance rate without spending more on marketing?
3. Do I really need more new patients, or a better acceptance rate?
4. Why is the mentor-mentee relationship disappearing in dentistry?
5. How does a specialist build a referral network from scratch?
6. How many referring dentists does a specialty practice need to stay busy?
7. What happens to a referral network when the referring dentists retire?
8. Should a general dentist do procedures they learned in a weekend course?
9. How do I know if my implants are actually successful long term?
10. How do I balance a clinical practice, family, and a national lecture schedule?

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Chris Mann
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

Put an image of your patient's cracked molar up on a 50-inch screen, stay quiet, and watch them diagnose it themselves. When Dr. Josh Austin started scanning every patient at every visit, it transformed how he presented restorative, ortho, and implant work.

The scanner earns its keep by selling without feeling like selling. Josh explains why its value isn't the crown scan — it's getting the patient to say yes to the crown, and how showing people their own recession, cracks, and simulations gets them diagnosing their own mouths.

The last thread is the one most GPs skip: clear aligners as a restorative tool, making the case that a few months of alignment before veneers or a crown can save you from bigger, more invasive dentistry down the road.

From the mental health of dentists, to the intraoral scanner as a case-acceptance engine, to using clear aligners to make restorative dentistry easier, Josh lays out why our profession is 2.5x more likely to die by suicide, how dental school quietly trains bad habits, and why his answer, after years of giving the talk, comes down to one word.

Plus: 6 dentists travel to Paris together, 37 pounds of trafficked French butter, and crashing a 13-course Michelin dinner.

Guest

Dr. Joshua Austin runs a full-time restorative practice in San Antonio, Texas, and in early 2025 moved from a solo operatory into an eight-op, three-doctor office. He writes the "Pearls for Your Practice" column for Dental Economics, serves as global faculty for Align Technology and resident faculty at Spear Education, and in 2024 won the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry and Seattle Study Club "Case of the Year."

A graduate of the UT Health San Antonio School of Dentistry, he lectures across the country on dental technology, ortho-restorative treatment, and mental health, including his signature talk, "The Mental Dental Connection: The Secret to Being a Better Clinician and Better Leader."

Learn more or book Josh to speak: austindentalseminars.com

Connect with Josh on LinkedIn

Questions answered by this episode:

1. Why are dentists more likely to struggle with anxiety, depression, and suicide?
2. How does dental school create bad habits around alcohol and perfectionism?
3. Can therapy actually help dentists manage the stress of practice ownership?
4. How do I use an intraoral scanner to improve case acceptance?
5. Why do patients say yes to treatment when they can see their own scan?
6. What is the best way to present a cracked tooth or failing filling to a patient?
7. How does SSRI (antidepressant) use affect dental implant success?
8. Should general dentists offer clear aligners in a restorative practice?
9. How can ortho with clear aligners make restorative dentistry easier?
10. Why don't dentists look at occlusion, and how do I start?

About The Special Lists

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Cameron Laird
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

Patients decide whether they trust your practice before they ever walk in the door — and they do it from the images on your website and your social feed.

Andrew Jowett owns MedCreative and has spent more than a decade shooting photo and video for brands, moving into the dental world in 2019. He joins Cameron, Dr. Souyias, and Dr. Seda to talk about what separates a practice that looks inviting from one that looks dated, and why that gap matters more than most dentists think.

He breaks down the difference between a hobbyist with a good camera and someone with a real eye, why “good enough” visuals are a liability in a market built on differentiation, and how he fills a frame so a still photo feels like a living, working office instead of two people holding charts.The conversation gets into the craft — reading and shaping natural light, winning over the camera-shy doctor, and learning enough clinical language to direct a shoot — plus the one line Andrew won't cross: no faking a result in Photoshop, because patients sniff it out instantly.

Guest

Andrew Jowett is the owner of MedCreative, a photography and video studio that tells brand stories for dental practices across the country, based in the Port Huron, Michigan area. He started in newspaper journalism — where he learned to put camera-shy subjects at ease — before moving into commercial and freelance work around 2016 and into the dental space in 2019. Today he shoots practice branding and, increasingly, ongoing social-media content built to perform on video-first platforms.
He grew up around two family trades that shaped his eye and his standards: dental hygiene (his mom) and funeral service (his dad).

Learn more about Andrew's work at medcreative.com

Follow Andrew on Instagram @nivenlife 

Questions answered by this episode:

1. How do professional photos affect a dental practice's patient trust?
2. Is it worth hiring a professional photographer for a dental office?
3. What's the difference between a hobbyist and a professional dental photographer?
4. How do you make a dental office look inviting in photos?
5. How can a dental practice get comfortable, natural-looking team photos?
6. How do you photograph a camera-shy dentist?
7. Should dental practices invest in video for social media?
8. How much social media content does a dental practice actually need?
9. How often should a dental office update its website photos?
10. How do you create dental social media content that stops the scroll?

About The Special Lists

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral.

Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Cameron Laird
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

Bring a second periodontist into one of your offices and the dentists who send you cases will still ask for you by name. Adam McClellan's fix is counterintuitive — he stops taking new patients at that location entirely, so there's no option to request him, and the incoming doctor inherits those relationships outright.

Adam is the CEO of Periodontal Care, a five-location periodontal group he built across the Kansas City metro over a decade through seven acquisitions and mergers — while vetting and passing on seven more. He talks with Cameron, Jason, and Michael about what it actually takes to grow from one practice to five without the whole thing depending on you.

He gets specific about how he sizes up a practice before he buys it: staff dynamics and ages, where the cases are coming from, location overlap with offices he already owns, and why a practice built on direct-to-consumer marketing was a hard no for a referral-based group like his.

Adam breaks down the meeting cadence that keeps his partners aligned — weekly one-on-ones, a monthly all-partner meeting, and a quarterly retreat where he hands everyone a mandate to tell him exactly what's broken. He's candid about the misses too, like the masterful three-office rollout he and his director of operations crumpled up on day two, and how learning to pivot fast became the skill that scaled the business.

Plus the inside-baseball stuff: the clinical “safe word” he shares with his assistants to reset when a surgery gets tense, the “exit code” that rescues him from a room running long, the ruptured Achilles that gave him the downtime to plan his next expansion, and why he tells every dentist he meets to invest in ergonomic loupes.

Guest

Dr. Adam McClellan is a board-certified periodontist and CEO of Periodontal Care, a specialty group with five locations across the Kansas City metro that he built over roughly a decade through seven acquisitions and mergers. Licensed in both Kansas and Missouri, he graduated with top honors from the University of Missouri–Kansas City's dental and periodontal programs, where he earned the American Academy of Periodontology's student achievement award and the Pierre Fauchard Academy's merit award.

His clinical focus is hard and soft tissue reconstruction, periodontal microplastic surgery, and the surgical placement of dental implants, and he is certified in LANAP laser therapy through the Institute for Advanced Laser Dentistry. He founded the Northland Dental Study Club and holds memberships in the American Academy of Periodontology, the American Academy of Osseointegration, and the Midwest Society of Periodontology. He is currently expanding the group's in-house IV sedation services.

Learn more about Periodontal Care: periodontalcarepa.com

Questions answered by this episode:

1. How do I grow a dental practice through acquisitions and mergers?
2. What should I look for before acquiring another dental practice?
3. How do I add a partner or associate without losing my referrals?
4. How do I manage multiple doctors across several office locations?
5. How often should dental partners meet to stay aligned?
6. What should happen at a dental partnership retreat?
7. Can AI replace dental front desk and assistant roles?
8. How do I scale a specialty practice without burning out?
9. Why do referred patients wait years before booking with a specialist?
10. Should I delegate operations to a director of operations?

About The Special Lists

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Chris Mann
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

Owning the hardware is not the same as knowing what to do with it. Gregg Kinzer has spent 30 years teaching dentists to think their way through complex cases, and he argues the profession is drifting toward letting the computer do the thinking instead.

Gregg is a Seattle prosthodontist, Faculty Chairman at Spear Education, and one of dentistry's most respected educators. He joins Cameron Full and Dr. Michael Seda for a wide conversation about where dental education is headed, what it actually means to practice digitally, and why failure is the part of the job nobody prepares you for.

On education, Gregg draws a hard line between teaching and entertaining. A lot of what passes for CE now is show-and-tell, impressive cases a dentist will never replicate in their own operatory. Real learning, he says, happens in small rooms where people get pushed, and in actually reading the literature instead of skimming the conclusions.

On technology, he makes the case that a scanner alone doesn't make a practice digital. The real work starts with how you use the data after the scan. He's optimistic about where AI could take treatment planning and clear-eyed about how a bad prompt, or a brand-new material with no long-term studies behind it, can cost you years and real money.

On failure, Gregg gets honest about perfectionism. He thinks a profession full of high achievers talked itself into believing every restoration should last forever, and that the harshest environment in the human body guarantees otherwise. The real fix is telling patients the risks before treatment, not explaining them after something breaks.

And on the cost of ambition, he doesn't pretend he has it solved. Everything costs something, and every yes is a no somewhere else. The line that stays with you is the question his nine-year-old asked him years ago, the one he still hasn't shaken.

Guest

Dr. Gregg Kinzer is a prosthodontist in Seattle, where he runs a private practice limited to comprehensive restorative and esthetic dentistry alongside his wife, Dr. Jill Kinzer. He serves as Faculty Chairman and Director of Curriculum and Campus Education at Spear Education in Scottsdale, Arizona, and as an Affiliate Assistant Professor in Graduate Prosthodontics at the University of Washington School of Dentistry, where he earned his DDS in 1995 and his prosthodontics certificate and MSD in 1998.

He is the sitting President of the American Academy of Esthetic Dentistry and a recipient of the Seattle Study Club's Saul Schluger Memorial Award for clinical excellence in diagnosis and treatment planning. With Dr. Jeff Rouse, he co-developed the Seattle Protocol for diagnosing and treating airway issues, and he is co-authoring the forthcoming Global Diagnosis II with Dr. Bill Robbins and Dr. Jeff Rouse. He also holds an adjunct faculty appointment at the Arizona School of Dentistry and Oral Health.

Learn more about Dr. Kinzer at Spear Education: speareducation.com/faculty/bio/greggory-kinzer

Questions answered by this episode:

1. Is buying an intraoral scanner enough to make my practice digital?
2. What does it actually mean to run a digital dental practice?
3. Is digital dentistry making clinicians less skilled?
4. How do I choose continuing education that teaches me to think, not just copy techniques?
5. Why is so much dental CE on YouTube and Instagram unreliable?
6. How do I learn to read dental literature instead of just the conclusions?
7. Can AI help with dental treatment planning, and what are the risks?
8. Why shouldn't I use a brand-new dental material right when it launches?
9. Why do dentists blame themselves when a restoration or crown fails?
10. How do I talk to patients about the risk of treatment failure before it happens?

About The Special Lists

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Victoria Cheng
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs
The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.

The thing nobody tells you about running your own dental practice is that the anxiety doesn't quiet down — it just gets louder for the first 20 years, and then you look back and realize none of the things you were afraid of actually happened. Eman Traynor knows. She built Traynor Periodontics & Implants from scratch in Greenwich, Connecticut in 1998 and ran it solo for 27 years on a steady drip of stress she now wishes she'd ignored.

What follows is her special list: five hard-won lessons from a 31-year periodontics career, the ones she wishes someone had handed her at the start.

Leading with embracing risk and failure, she admits anxiety is part of the path, but the path leads somewhere good, and you arrive whether you enjoy the trip or not. Eman didn’t, and that’s the regret she opens with.

Walking through operations, she advises systemizing everything because discipline sets you free. Hire one more person than you think you need, because running lean costs more than the salary you saved.

Master your data, because you can’t run a business on feel. She names her consultant (Mary Ann Spears), her platform (Referral Lab), and the moment she stopped reacting emotionally to bad days because she finally had the numbers to tell a different story.

On technology, her rule is simple: never buy version one. She likes Freed.ai for chairside notes (it learns her words and emails the patient a summary after the consult), but she’s not an early adopter, and that’s by design.

She closes with her case for solo practitioners not staying solo in spirit. The five people you spend the most time with shape you. For Eman, those five came from the Seattle Study Club, including her hosts Cameron Full and Dr. Michael Seda. 

Guest

Dr. Eman Traynor is the founder and solo periodontist at Traynor Periodontics & Implants in Greenwich, Connecticut, where she has been in private practice for over 27 years. She earned her DMD at Washington University School of Dental Medicine in St. Louis in 1991, completed a general practice residency at Barnes/Jewish Hospital at Washington University Medical Center, and earned her Master of Science in periodontics at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1995, where her research focused on the link between insulin-dependent diabetes and periodontal disease. Her practice is an affiliate of the Seattle Study Club, and she directs both Traynor Periodontics & Implants Study Club and an affiliated hygiene study club. Born in Egypt and raised between the UK and the US, she built her Greenwich practice from scratch in 1998 and has stayed solo ever since.

Learn more about Traynor Periodontics & Implants: tpigreenwich.com.

Follow Eman's practice on Instagram @traynorperiodontics

Questions answered by this episode:
1. How do solo dental practitioners deal with anxiety long-term?
2. Why do most dentists hold onto employees too long?
3. Is it better to over-hire or run lean in a dental practice?
4. How do you build standard operating procedures in a dental office?
5. What KPIs should periodontists track to grow their practice?
6. Should I be the first to adopt new dental technology?
7. Does Freed.ai work for chairside dental notes?
8. Is the Seattle Study Club worth joining as a solo dental specialist?
9. How do you start a solo periodontal practice from scratch?
10. What advice would a 30-year periodontist give her younger self?

About The Special Lists

The Special Lists, presented by Referral Lab, is the podcast for dentists and dental specialists. Running a dental practice isn't easy, and if you're in private practice, it can sometimes feel like you're on an island. That's why finding your people—those who've been in your shoes and can share real, lived experience—changes the game.

Referral Lab was built specifically for dental specialists, helping you track, manage, and convert every referral. It's about improving case acceptance, boosting team performance, and strengthening relationships with referring providers so your whole practice runs smarter.

This spirit of connection fuels The Special Lists podcast. Hosted by the team behind Referral Lab, we bring you wisdom from practice owners and dental professionals, sharing the wins, mistakes, and lessons that shape how they run their businesses today.

Got a question for us? Send us a message at speciallists.com (with two L's)

Transform your referral workflow with Referral Lab, the purpose-built platform for dental specialists to track, manage and convert every referral. Request a demo at referrallab.io

Hosts

Cameron Full
Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Cameron Full, co-founder of Referral Lab, is a strategic problem-solver with expertise in business management and digital solutions. He combines leadership, creativity, and technology to drive success across various industries.

Connect with Cameron on LinkedIn

Jason Souyias, DDS
Periodontist and Co-Founder of Referral Lab

Dr. Jason Souyias is a periodontist, educator, and co-founder of Referral Lab software. He teaches dentists and hygienists, including as a Pikos Institute faculty member. In his Port Huron private practice, he's known for excellent patient communication and experience. He's passionate about his work and dedicated to helping other dentists.

More about Port Huron, Michigan periodontist Dr. Jason Souyias

Michael Seda, DMD, MS
Periodontist and Co-Developer of Referral Lab

A clinician and entrepreneur, Dr. Seda brings 19 years of private practice experience to his periodontal and implant surgery practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Dr. Seda's education spans several disciplines, including a degree in Psychobiology from the University of California, Los Angeles, a Doctorate degree from Harvard University (DMD), and a Master's degree in Periodontics and Oral Medicine from Columbia University.

More about Bay Area periodontist Dr. Michael Seda

Follow Dr. Seda on Instagram @sedaperio

Co-hosts: Cameron Full, Jason Souyias, DDS & Michael Seda, DDS
Producer: Eva Sheie @ The Axis
Assistant Producer: Mary Ellen Clarkson
Engineering: Cameron Laird
Theme music: Papa Funk, spring gang
Cover Art: Dan Childs

The Special Lists is a production of The Axis.