As programmers, we want to control complexity and simplify our software, but these things are often hard for us to define. We know them when we see them!

This week, Mike and Erik talk about what it means to say that software is "complex" and along the way they'll offer three definitions of complexity, so the next time you're at work and commenting on pull requests and telling someone that what they've written is too complex, you can cite these random guys on this podcast!

For music this week Mike has been listening to ORQUÍDEAS by Kali Uchis while Erik is listening to SUSS, a work of ambient country music (whatever that means).

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