In Episode 20 of 'The Thriving Lawyer' podcast, Kathleen Brenner interviews Mike Rosalky, a fellow lawyer at Lawyerbank, who shares his unconventional career journey.

Mike talks about his diverse legal career, including his transition from a public servant to various roles in private and governmental legal settings.

He emphasizes the importance of pursuing interests outside of the law, such as sports and yoga, to maintain life satisfaction and prevent burnout.

Kathleen and Mike talk about the challenges of purpose-driven work, discussing how to manage passion without succumbing to burnout.

They also explore how career flexibility and varied interests contribute to overall happiness and professional satisfaction.

This episode is filled with practical advice and inspiration for lawyers seeking to thrive both in their careers and personal lives.

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

01:05 Episode 20: Special Guest Mike Rosalky

01:54 Mike Rosalky's Career Journey

03:44 The Lawyerbank Experience

05:24 Balancing Work and Personal Interests

13:30 The Challenges of Purpose-Driven Work

17:44 Advice for Aspiring Lawyers

21:44 Mike's Yoga Journey

26:34 The Importance of Pursuing Interests

32:44 Final Thoughts and Reflections

45:48 Conclusion and Podcast Outro

In episode 19 of Season 2 of The Thriving Lawyer podcast, hosts Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz delve into the second part of their special series on their course, The Thriving Lawyer, launching Wednesday 12 August 2025! 

This episode focuses on the course's structure and content, taking you through the structure of the course and each of the six modules.  

The hosts, Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz outline the 6-week program, which is science-informed and helps lawyers create a unique roadmap for thriving - as lawyers, and in the rest of their lives.  

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

00:49 Episode 19 Kickoff

01:18 Why We Created The Thriving Lawyer Course

01:41 Course Overview: What You'll Learn

02:04 Challenges Lawyers Face

03:27 The Thriving Lawyer Program Structure

05:41 Module Breakdown: Part One

09:31 Module Breakdown: Part Two

15:02 Final Thoughts and Launch Details

15:47 Closing Remarks and Resources

 In Episode 18 of The Thriving Lawyer podcast, hosts Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz announce the launch of their highly anticipated signature course designed to help lawyers thrive - as lawyers, and in the rest of their lives.

They discuss the motivation behind the course, the pressing issues within the legal profession, and why traditional well-being initiatives often fall short.

Highlighting the comprehensive and evidence-based approach that the course adopts, Kathleen and Carla outline how it provides lawyers with the necessary tools and strategies to create meaningful and sustainable changes in their lives.

This episode also explores the personal journeys of the hosts, their collaborative effort in developing the course, and the transformative experiences they've gained.

Lawyers can learn about special launch bonuses and how the course can be a valuable resource for both individuals and legal teams.

Don't miss out on this opportunity to move from merely surviving to truly thriving.

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

01:00 Episode 18: Special Announcement

01:55 The Legal Profession's Wellbeing Crisis

05:17 Creating The Thriving Lawyer Course

06:18 Kathleen's Vision and Journey

15:34 Carla's Perspective and Collaboration

27:22 Course Details and Unique Features

30:27 Conclusion and Call to Action

Research on Lawyer Wellbeing Victorian Legal Services Board & Commission 2019 Lawyer Wellbeing Project - https://lsbc.vic.gov.au/resources/2019-lawyer-wellbeing-project-report

Key links: Find out more about our signature course here.

In episode 17 of The Thriving Lawyer Podcast, hosts Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz discuss the importance of self-compassion within the legal profession.

Building on their previous conversation about perfectionism, they explore why self-compassion matters and offer practical strategies to implement it. They address the pervasive culture of perfectionism in law and its connection to self-criticism, which affects lawyers' well-being.

The discussion introduces Dr. Kristin Neff's framework of self-compassion, consisting of self-kindness, common humanity, and mindfulness.

Kathleen and Carla share insights on how to practice self-compassion by recognizing and labeling emotions, normalizing experiences, and treating oneself with the same kindness extended to friends. They highlight effective techniques such as self-compassion breaks and journaling, encouraging listeners to integrate self-compassion into their daily lives.

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

01:24 Recap of Last Episode: Unmasking Perfectionism

01:42 Exploring Self-Compassion in the Legal Profession

02:19 Understanding Perfectionism and Self-Criticism

05:15 The Science Behind Self-Compassion 06:32 Practical Strategies for Self-Compassion

07:51 Common Humanity and Mindfulness

09:27 Real-Life Examples and Applications

15:58 Techniques to Practice Self-Compassion

21:31 Conclusion and Resources

Kristen Neff resources - https://self-compassion.org/

Get our guide to thriving here - https://www.thrivinglawyer.com.au/guide

Join the waitlist for our course - launching 13 August - at https://www.thrivinglawyer.com.au/thrivinglawyercourse

Episode 16 of Season 2: Unmasking Perfectionism in the Legal Profession

In episode 16 of Season 2 of 'The Thriving Lawyer' podcast, Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz explore the pervasive issue of perfectionism within the legal profession.

Kathleen and Carla, both ICF accredited coaches with extensive experience working with lawyers, discuss how perfectionism manifests in different forms - self-oriented, other-oriented, and socially prescribed - and the impact it has on lawyers' work and personal lives.

They delve into the intricate dynamics of perfectionism, citing research from scholars like Paul Hewitt, Gordon Flett, and Brene Brown, and assess its linkage to burnout, stress, and anxiety.

The hosts offer practical strategies to address perfectionism, including cognitive-behavioral coaching approaches, self-compassion exercises by Dr. Kristin Neff, and creating a culture of psychological safety within legal workplaces.

They emphasize the importance of reflective practice, understanding personal values, and fostering a growth mindset as tools to combat the rigidity of perfectionism.

Through real-world examples and actionable insights, this episode aims to help lawyers achieve a healthier balance between excellence and well-being.

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

00:55 Episode 16: Tackling Perfectionism in the Legal World

02:28 Defining Perfectionism: More Than High Standards

07:45 The Impact of Perfectionism on Lawyers

11:56 Coaching Strategies to Combat Perfectionism

14:34 Real-Life Examples of Perfectionism in Law

22:07 Practical Tips for Lawyers and Leaders

25:37 Conclusion and Reflections

27:07 Closing Remarks and Resources

Resources mentioned

Kristen Neff, Self-compassion exercises https://self-compassion.org/

VLSB Lawyer Wellbeing research 2019 can be found here. 

Thriving Lawyer resources 

Get the Lawyer's Guide to Thriving: A Sustainable Roadmap to Success here. 

Explore our signature course (coming soon) here.

In Episode 15 of the Thriving Lawyer Podcast, hosts Kathleen and Carla Ferraz shift the focus from goal-setting to the often-overlooked but crucial aspect of identifying and leveraging character strengths.   They explore how understanding and leveraging character strengths can make a significant difference in a lawyer's professional journey and overall well-being.   Drawing from the principles of positive psychology introduced by Martin Seligman, they discuss the VIA Character Strengths Survey and its transformative potential. The episode delves into how strengths like love of learning, judgment, perseverance, and fairness can be harnessed intentionally to navigate challenges, enhance resilience, and prevent burnout.   Practical tips on identifying, using, and reflecting on these strengths are provided, making it a valuable listen for any lawyer aiming for sustainable success and personal growth.   00:00 Introduction to Episode 15 00:43 Understanding Character Strengths 01:38 Personal Experiences with Strengths 03:24 Exploring and Leveraging Strengths 04:58 The VIA Character Strengths Survey 07:08 Common Strengths Among Lawyers 16:59 Practical Tips for Using Strengths 26:18 Conclusion and Final Thoughts    

Get the VIA strengths Assessment here.

Get the Lawyer's Guide to Thriving: A Sustainable Roadmap to Success here. 

Explore our signature course (coming soon) here.

In episode 14 of The Thriving Lawyer podcast, Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz delve into the intricacies of vision and goal setting for lawyers.  

Building on their previous discussion about readiness for change, they explore the deeper, value-driven aspirations that can guide lawyers towards fulfilling lives. They emphasize the importance of fuzzy goals, which are broad, value-based directions, and the necessity of aligning professional and personal goals with one's core values. Through personal anecdotes and evidence-based methods, they discuss how to maintain motivation and avoid the pitfalls of externally-imposed goals.  

The episode also covers the importance of self-reflection and experimentation in achieving sustainable success. The hosts encourage lawyers to reflect on their values, set meaningful goals, and continuously adapt and learn through experimentation.  

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

00:50 Episode 14: Vision and Goal Setting

01:14 Understanding Change Readiness

02:25 The Importance of Fuzzy Goals

04:41 Connecting Goals with Values

07:57 Kathleen's Personal Journey with Values

13:01 The Role of Self-Determination Theory

25:47 Experimentation and Flexibility in Goal Setting

34:30 Invitation to Reflect and Experiment

35:45 Conclusion and Teaser for Next Episode  

Sign up to the waitlist and find out more about our signature course here:  https://www.thrivinglawyer.com.au/thrivinglawyercourse  

Get your copy of the Lawyer's Guide to Thriving: A Sustainable Roadmap for Success here: www.thrivinglawyer.com.au/guide  

Mastering Change: Readiness and Self-Determination for Lawyers   In Episode 13 of 'The Thriving Lawyer,' hosts Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz delve into the crucial topic of readiness for change and look out how it often plays out for lawyers.   Reflecting on their recent discussions about reflective practice, they introduce the trans-theoretical model of change developed by Prochaska and DiClemente, and discuss how this framework can help lawyers navigate the complexities of behavioral change.   They explore the six stages of change—pre-contemplation, contemplation, preparation, action, maintenance, and relapse—and emphasize the importance of internal motivation.   Kathleen and Carla also highlight the self-determination theory's three key psychological needs: autonomy, competence, and relatedness, and how fulfilling these needs can foster sustainable change.   Real-life examples, including personal anecdotes and client stories, are shared to illustrate the practical application of these theories to lawyers.   The episode wraps up with actionable tips for lawyers to build readiness for change and invites listeners to engage in further reflection and discussion.   00:00 Introduction and Episode Overview 00:12 Reflective Practice Recap 00:57 Understanding Readiness for Change 02:34 Stages of Change Model 05:02 Challenges Lawyers Face in Change 07:49 Self-Determination Theory in Coaching 13:29 Practical Examples and Coaching Insights 25:16 Final Thoughts and Resources

In episode 12 of Season Two, Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz discuss the significance of reflective practice for lawyers, following their insightful interview in the previous episode with Professor Christian van Nieuwerburgh and David Love.

The episode explores themes from the duo's book on reflective practice, emphasizing its role as the missing piece for achieving performance and wellbeing.

Kathleen and Carla share personal experiences and offer practical tips on incorporating structured reflection into daily routines to help lawyers manage mindless busyness, overcome skepticism, and avoid rumination.

They highlight the importance of self-compassion and engaging in solution-focused reflection to create meaningful change. Tune in to learn how reflective practice can empower lawyers to thrive both in their professional and personal lives.

00:00 Introduction to The Thriving Lawyer Podcast

00:51 Reflecting on the Previous Episode

02:46 Carla's Journey with Reflective Practice

05:30 Implementing Reflective Practices with Clients

In episode 11 of season two of The Thriving Lawyer, hosts Kathleen Brenner and Carla Ferraz welcome  guests Professor Christian van Nieuwerburgh and leadership coach David Love.

The discussion centres around the value and integration of reflective practice and how it can be applied by lawyers.  

Professor van Nieuwerburgh and Love draw from their extensive expertise in coaching and positive psychology to explain how structured reflective practice can enhance lawyers' performance and wellbeing.

The episode explores practical applications, leadership roles in fostering a supportive environment, and the complementary relationship between reflective practice and coaching.

This episode is a must-listen for lawyers and professionals aiming to improve their practice and personal fulfillment.

GUEST PROFILES 

Prof. Christian van Nieuwerburgh (PhD) is an academic, consultant and executive coach. As Professor of Coaching and Positive Psychology, he leads the Centre for Positive Health Sciences at RCSI University of Medicine and Health Sciences (Ireland). In recognition of his contributions to the fields of positive psychology and coaching, he is Principal Fellow of the Centre for Wellbeing Science at the Melbourne Graduate School of Education of the University of Melbourne (Australia) and Honorary CollectivEd Fellow of the Carnegie School of Education at Leeds Beckett University (UK).

Christian is a certified executive coach and is well published in the academic literature on the topics of coaching and positive psychology. He has authored, co-authored and edited numerous books in the field of coaching, most notably An Introduction to Coaching Skills: A Practical Guide (2014, 2016, 2020). His latest books are Your Essential Guide to Effective Reflective Practice (2025, with David Love) and Radical Listening: The Art of True Connection (2025, with Robert Biswas-Diener). Follow Christian on Instagram (@coachonamotorcycle), on his YouTube channel (@coachonamotorcycle) and on his website (coachonamotorcycle.com).

David Love is a leadership coach with over 20 years’ experience of working with senior and
middle managers in UK public services (e.g. the NHS). He is also an experienced coach
supervisor, mentor and educator. Before becoming independent in 2013 he was Principal
Fellow at the Office for Public Management designing and leading projects with public
service organisations focusing on organisational and leadership development. Previous roles
included teaching and senior leadership positions in the post-16 education sector.
Reflective practice is at the heart of David’s approach to his work with clients and regular,
planned reflective practice is a central feature of a commitment to his own lifelong learning.
As an art-based practitioner he has established a habit of regular creative reflective practice
to explore his work and relationships with clients. In addition, David encourages clients to
create images or cartoons to enable them to explore the challenges and successes they
experience in their work.

David is an author and also contributes articles about coaching to journals and magazines,
focusing for example on creative approaches and paying attention to neurodiversity. He
describes himself as a “management cartoonist”’, using humour to encourage reflection
about the absurdities of organisational life. He is the resident cartoonist for the Association
for Coaching’s “Coaching Perspectives” magazine.

You can find their book 'Effective Reflective Practice: Improving Practice through Self-Reflection and Writing here.  

00:00 Introduction and Guest Introductions

01:08 Guest Backgrounds and Expertise

02:24 Reflective Practice and Its Importance

06:59 Defining Reflective Practice

23:57 The Cycle of Effective Reflective Practice

27:30 The Lawyer's Reflective Practice Experiment

29:52 Positive Psychology and Professional Wellbeing

31:48 Unique Challenges Faced by Lawyers

35:58 Implementing Reflective Practice in Busy Schedules

41:57 Creating a Supportive Organizational Culture

50:46 Reflective Practice and Coaching Synergy 55:45 Final Thoughts and Encouragement