the tortoise & the hare

Prompted by a listener question, this week’s episode is about Brooke and Ben’s relationship with alcohol and how it’s changed over the past five years. Brooke shares why she never really wanted to use the word ‘sober’ to describe herself and how healing helped her let go of rigid ideas on drinking vs not drinking.

Ben discusses the role drinking culture has had on his life and why he thinks other countries do it better than Australia. They also talk about wasted days, the toll drinking takes and the flip-side: the high cost of complete restriction. It’s a vulnerable chat but it feels important to share.

They also discuss:

• their respective relationships with alcohol — then and now
• Brooke’s experience with quitting — why, how and what she told people about it
• what was lost and gained
• how learning to have fun sober has been a game-changer
• the physiological effects of alcohol and why Brooke used it as a social crutch
• why moralising could have a negative effect on their family
• how to step back from a restrictive mindset and soften the language we use
• why we still do things we know to be “bad” for us
• the difference between preferences and non-negotiables
• what Brooke and Ben would tell themselves 10 years ago

Thanks for listening!

Links:

• Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
• Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.
• If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare and watch today's episode
• Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:

• the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
• Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
• Edited by Ben McAlary
• Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
• Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dive into different ways of thinking — open and closed, fixed and fluid and whatever exists in between. They discuss their different approaches to rule-following, how they deal with opinion chameleons and why finding common ground is one of the most effective ways to have a constructive conversation.

Ben also explains why he loves playing the devil’s advocate (and why Brooke finds it infuriating!) and finishes with a hard-hitting question: rigid or flexible lollies — which is better?

They discuss:

• hypersensitivity
• Brooke’s EMDR experience
• dealing with narrow-minded people
• chameleon opinions and why they’re so confusing
• rule-followers vs rebels
• improving cognitive flexibility
• how to engage different opinions without losing your mind
• why hope hurts sometimes
• the great lolly debate: rigid vs flexible

Thanks for listening!

Links:

• Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
• Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $8AUD/month or $80AUD/yr.
• If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare
• Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:

• the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
• Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
• Edited by Ben McAlary
• Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
• Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When it comes to age and youth, body image takes a beating at both ends. Can we find a gentler way through the years?

In today’s show, Brooke and Ben discuss the duality of wrinkles & pimples — i.e. the visible elements of youth and aging — and how they are literally in the middle of it right now, with both wrinkles and pimples (and grey hair and stiff backs in the morning).

They discuss:

• changing body image in their mid-40s
• why gender-affirming care (including hair removal, plastic surgery, make-up and hormone therapy) should be accessible to everyone
• the changing role of body image for boys and men over the past decade
• what our faces and bodies are actually for
• the billionaires who want to live forever and go to great lengths to avoid aging

Thanks for listening!

Links:

• Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
• Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $5AUD/month for a limited time
• If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare
• Access the full, human-made transcript here

Credits:

• the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
• Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
• Edited by Ben McAlary
• Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
• Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

fast & slow | Is there a middle ground between the two? Or are we destined to wrestle our inner-tortoise and inner-hare forever?

In the first episode of the tortoise & the hare, Brooke and Ben revisit slow living one last time (no, really!) to see where they exist on the spectrum of speed today and why they decided to keep the slow living reference in the new show’s name.

Initially, slow living was a new way of seeing the world. It provided freedom and community and opportunity. But within a few years, the wellness industry exploded and slow-living voices competed to become a new version of the Joneses — the most slow, the most aesthetic, the most minimalist. What started as a fluid, adaptable idea became consumption-driven and highly aspirational.

Links:

• Find everything mentioned in today’s show at brookemcalary.substack.com 
• Become a paying supporter of ttath and get double the episodes! Weekly shows delivered straight to your inbox for just $5/month for a limited time
• If video is your jam, subscribe to our YouTube channel @thetortoiseandthehare
• Access the full, human-made transcript here

Thanks for tuning in!

Credits:

• the tortoise & the hare is a McAlary Media production.
• Produced and hosted by Brooke McAlary and Ben McAlary
• Edited by Ben McAlary
• Studio equipment supplied by shot.studio
• Theme music is Edgar Allan Poe by Modern Aquatic

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Listen to the tortoise & the hare preview now. The first episode drops 20th August 2026!

Fast and slow. Young and old. Hard and soft. Open and closed. Real and fake. Hide and seek. Pleasure and pain… Life is full of dualities and extremes and pick-a-sides. But most of our days are spent in the messy middle. 

the tortoise & the hare is a weekly show from Brooke and Ben McAlary, creators of the much-loved  Slow Home Podcast (RIP). Each episode is a human-made, homegrown, perfectly imperfect conversation about the either/or of life and the vast grey area in between.

Because we all contain multitudes. So let’s talk about them.

***

Don't forget: 

• Subscribe to ttath in your favourite podcast app so you don't miss an episode
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• Find us on YouTube if you prefer to watch your pods

 

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Instead of the usual conversation between Brooke and Ben, today's episode is simply a reading of the final ever edition of The Tortoise newsletter. 

Take a listen, and please know that it has been an absolute pleasure to be heard by you over the years. 

https://brookemcalary.substack.com/p/sometimes-life-surprises-us 

Much love and thanks for listening,

Brooke and Ben xx

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A more accurate title for this episode might have been: The Myth of Work-Life Balance, because both Ben and Brooke think it’s fundamentally BS, but that was too long a title, so Balance it is.

In this episode, they look at the idea of balance through a post-lockdown, new-workplace lens, in an effort to make sense of why it feels harder to achieve now, and what we might be able to do to create it.

They dig into their own definitions of balance, the pros and cons when it comes to self-employment, how they each differentiate between work time and non-work time and why they find the goal of work/life balance to be damaging.

The also talk about anti-balance or tilting as an alternative, as well as the impact of the upcoming “right to disconnect” legislation, the attraction of "working ahead", how to approach changes in your own workplace when you’re not self-employed, and why it’s important to start small, specific and slow.

It’s a juicy topic, not least because it applies to everyone differently and we hope you enjoy it.

Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. 

Thanks for listening! 

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this month's episode, Brooke and Ben dig into the topic of body image. How do we see ourselves in the world? How does that inform our choices and beliefs? What inputs have the most impact on our self-image? 

What began as a conversation about "hot rodent men" became an exploration of how we take up space in the world, the comments, trends, beliefs and expectations we internalise, how those things impact our behaviours and the role that media and marketing play in all of it. 

Brooke shares how her body image has shifted over the past few years, due to health issues, getting older, shifting priorities and the impact of slow living, and Ben looks at the differences in body image for young boys versus men. 

They also discuss their different experiences of negative body image growing up, how body and beauty trends keep us feeling "wrong," why the resurgence of “skinny” might be in direct response to body positivity, why body neutrality could be a healthier place to aim when it comes to self-image, and the importance of body appreciation and its role in our well-being. 

Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. 

Thanks for listening! 

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Pleasure. Just the word brings a little shiver to the spine, doesn't it?

Defined as “a feeling or experience that involves enjoyment or satisfaction,” in today’s episode, Brooke and Ben dig a little deeper into what pleasure is in real terms, what it means to them personally and why expanding our individual definitions might be the key to unlocking a whole new way of experiencing life.

For Brooke it relates to not only her word of the year (joy) but also the theme she's currently exploring over on The Tortoise — rebellious living. While at first glance, pleasure doesn’t appear to be particularly related to living rebelliously, throughout this conversation, she and Ben dig into why centring pleasure in a world that feels too much, too heavy, too overwhelming really can be an act of rebellion. (Honestly!)

In a wide-ranging conversation, they also discuss how the senses are related to pleasure, why redefining and reclaiming it could increase the amount of pleasure we experience, the relationship between pleasure and addiction and why embracing joy and delight might make us less prone to capitalistic manipulation.

They also talk about the six-second kiss that's been a game-changer, list some of their own simple pleasures and talk about the importance of becoming a better self-observer if we're going to invite more pleasure into our lives.

Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. 

Thanks for listening! 

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you spend any time on TikTok, you've probably seen the #softlife trend pop up over the past couple of years. Brooke and Ben aren't on TikTok, so are late to the party as usual, but wanted to dive into the sister movement of slow living anyway.

In today's episode, they look at what soft living is, where it began, how it relates to slow living, and why it's following a similar trajectory as that of self-care, slow living, and other counter-cultural movements. (ie. becoming increasingly mainstream and commercial).

They look at soft living as the opposite of hard living (which proves both obvious and helpful) and try to define it for themselves. For Brooke it revolves around joy, and for Ben its in learning how to ask for help - both of which offer unexpected ways of looking at softness.

They also talk about the consumerism attached to these movements, and offer some practical suggestions on how to create space for softness in your day-to-day life.

Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. 

Thanks for listening! 

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.