The Tragically Hip Top Forty Countdown: Song 18 — Claire from Ann Arbor

Hey, it’s jD. And welcome to the wide open middle of the countdown — that beautiful, feral terrain where deep cuts go to become legends and personal faves start to collide with consensus picks.

This week on The Tragically Hip Top Forty Countdown, I’m joined by one of our most thoughtful and eloquent membersHIPers: Claire from Ann Arbor. We talk about discovering The Hip as a millennial from the U.S., falling hard thanks to Hockey Night in Canada, and how a steady diet of CBC and her dad’s hockey tapes led her straight to 50 Mission Cap. (That’s right — before she even knew the song, she knew the legend of Bill Barilko. That’s parenting done right.)

But what really makes this one hit different? Claire’s lived experience as a disabled fan navigating concerts, fandom, and feeling safe in the crowd. Her reflections on inclusivity, identity, and finding community through The Hip are honest, funny, moving, and — in true TTHTop40 fashion — a little nerdy in the best possible way.

We’re not just counting down songs here. We’re collecting stories. Claire’s is one you’ll be glad you heard.

🧠 This week’s guest brings:

• A first Hip show in Detroit (2007, World Container tour — “life-changing” in her words)
• A wheelchair user’s perspective on what makes Hip crowds feel safer than punk pits
• Some spicy (but respectful) Bob Rock-era takes
• Love for lyrics, cadence, and that one time Gord used “countervailing” in a fucking rock song
• A once-in-a-lifetime moment: sitting down with all four remaining band members after the Massey Hall event

💬 Episode Quote

“I felt like Hip shows were the first place where I found my people. I always felt safe, welcome — like I belonged. That changed everything.”

👋 About Our Guest

Claire from Ann Arbor is a librarian, lyric nerd, and longtime Hip fan who’s seen the band live nearly a dozen times across the Midwest and Ontario. She’s got great taste, a sharp eye for storytelling, and a high-level appreciation for both In View and It’s a Good Life If You Don’t Weaken. We love her for all of that.

📬 Got a Story to Share?

Join the countdown. Leave a voice memo at castfeedback.com/tthtop40 or email us a tale at [email protected]. The best ones get airtime — and bonus points for emotional devastation, nerdy detail, or full-on Hip hijinks.

📡 Listen & Subscribe:

• Spotify
• Apple Podcasts
• YouTube: @dewvre1974
• Website: dewvre.com/tthtop40

📲 Follow Along:

• Instagram: @tthtop40
• Facebook Group: facebook.com/groups/tthtop40

💥 Support the Show:

Join the membersHIP over at buymeacoffee.com/tthtop40. No perks, no pressure — just passion. Every dollar goes to keeping this passion project alive and raising funds for ALS Canada.

Transcript:

Track 2:

[0:02] Hey, it's JD here, and you're probably tired of podcasts asking you for money. I get it, so I'm

not going to ask. I am, however, going to strongly suggest, with love, that you give me money. This

isn't about exclusive perks or gated content, though those exist. It's about supporting something

you believe in. If you've been enjoying the Tragically Hip Top 40 Countdown, If it's made you laugh,

think, feel something, or reconnect with a band that means the world to you, this is your chance to

give back. I make this show because I love the hip, I love this community, and I believe in telling

stories that matter. But it all takes time, energy, and of course, your support. By joining the

membership, you're not just helping to keep the show running, you're also helping to raise money

for the ALS Society of Canada. No minimum, no catch, no problem. BuyMeACoffee.com forward

slash TTH Top 40. Membership. Support the show. Support the cause. Support what you love.

Track 1:

[1:13] A member of the DATC Media family.

Track 2:

[1:16] Previously on the Tragically Hip Top 40 Countdown.

Track 1:

[1:20] Jeff from Belville, what did you think of Cordelia the first time you remember hearing it? Yeah,

Jamie, you know, I kind of described in the first part, the first time I heard it, which is back in 91 up

in the coach house and, you know, would have been the third song by the hip that I had heard. And

I think at that time we were, you know, closely paying attention to the first few songs. And I can't,

you know, say exactly what I felt in that moment, but it stopped me in my.

Track 3:

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[1:58] Hey, it's JD here, and welcome to the Tragically Hip Top 40 Countdown. It is my pleasure to

be with you here week over week, counting down the 40 essential songs by the hip that you

selected with your very own top 20 ballads. I then tabulated the results using an abacus and S, B,

and Lonely Boy, XOXO. How will your favorite songs fare in the rankings? You'll need to tune in

every week to find out. So there's that. This week I'm joined by TTH superfan Claire from Ann

Arbor. How the hell are you doing on this hip-tastic day, Claire from Ann Arbor? I'm doing very well.

Thank you for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. You guys do all the work in these episodes. I just sit

here and listen to your experiences and sit in awe. You know, it's real cool. Mm-hmm. Well, happy

to, really happy to be here with you. Awesome. Well, let's get right into things. Let's not beat around

the bush. Let's get right into things and get into your hip origin story.

Track 3:

[3:09] Right well this is going back pretty far but um maybe not quite as far as some other hip fans

being more of a millennial myself i um was in high school probably about 14 years old when i think i

first heard the hip and found out about the hip um i think my memories Because maybe I'm not

quite remembering everything exactly the way it happened, but I want to say... We rarely do.

Exactly. I want to say that back in the early to mid-2000s, again, when I was a lovely, pretty angsty

teenager.

Track 3:

[3:58] I was very into definitely music. I loved music, but I also just really loved hockey so much. So

growing up in the Metro Detroit area, of course, I'm a Red Wings fan, but we're lucky here in the

Metro Detroit area that we get CBC, Channel 9, and we are able to watch Hockey Night in Canada,

which again and in those days um was just such a fun experience saturday night hockey night in

canada um my my dad kind of got me into you know watching coach's corner and uh ron mcclain

and don cherry and um the maple leafs so yeah i.

Track 3:

[4:54] I think watching CBC really opened up a lot of that Canadian culture to me. Not just hockey.

Yeah, for sure. And, like, I really just enjoyed the content on CBC. It was just a little different than

kind of the American media at the time. And then I want to say that either maybe the first hip song

was part of a Hockey Night in Canada montage. I know I remember 50 Mission Cap pretty well as

kind of stopping me in my, you know, watching whatever I was watching or probably listening to or

watching a hockey game and hearing it. That was like, oh my gosh, I've heard the Bill Barocco

story from my dad and his hockey fans. And I'm like, a band is actually singing about this. You

knew the Bill Berilco story prior to hearing 50 Mission Cats? So thanks to my dad, because... That's

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so cool. He definitely had me on a steady diet of like, like hockey, like old hockey videos and

knowing like old leaf players. So that was interesting that they definitely.

Track 3:

[6:19] Made me a fan with that but then I do also remember the That Night in Toronto DVD from

their live show I believe playing on CBC because that also really solidified being a huge fan I just

felt like their recordings are one thing but then the live.

Track 3:

[6:48] Show was just a whole other realm of, being impressed and kind of like stunned by their just

the way they were on stage and then the type of music they were playing and.

Track 3:

[7:09] I mean, absolutely. It's an incredible thing to watch this band live. And I was just talking with

somebody earlier today, in fact, about seeing them live. And if you were lucky enough to see them

live, and I'm going to ask you next whether you did or not, it really cements how great they are. It

underscores. It's like the records are dynamite, but holy crap, like you said, it's a whole other

dimension. Yeah, no, it was, yeah, it was great timing in a way. Again, looking back at this time of

their kind of band arc in the mid-2000s, it was when I first saw them, got to see them, because

again, I was kind of just a teenager and getting into different music. So I sort of wish I got to see

them in more like the 90s era, but I was too young at that time. But I looked up old tour dates to

refresh my memory, and I believe the first one, the first live show, was at the State Theater, which is

now the Fillmore, in Detroit in 07, in April of 2007.

Track 3:

[8:36] And after that again being very lucky to continue to see them I believe seven or eight

additional times so definitely all the Detroit shows, Windsor shows as well as, Cleveland and

London, Ontario after that so I got Wow you've traveled a little bit yeah it's been like kind of a.

Track 3:

[9:05] They're just.

Track 3:

[9:07] Pulled me in so much that, and again, with my dad being kind of my fan buddy, I got him into

them, just like he got me into hockey. So it was really nice because we did some good traveling,

good bonding experiences to see hip shows. Oh, that is so cool.

Track 3:

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[9:31] Yeah, I wish I had been able to get my dad into the hip. Wasn't gonna ever happen though

never you have like oh sorry how many times have you seen them live i i need to go through i don't

have ticket stubs anymore which really sucks i moved too many times to keep them and there's a

lot of people listening right now saying fuck you you keep them no matter what and you're right i'm

sorry it doesn't make sense but uh i do have i do have uh an account on um setlist.fm and i've went

through that a few times and looked at the shows i've been to and i want to say it's 17 to answer

your question in a really long-winded way that's amazing you know but i had a i had a real gap i

was from a small town so i had like a three-year gap off the top and then i sort of went on a hiatus

from inviolate like.

Track 3:

[10:38] After inviolate light all the way through to man machine palm so i didn't see them i saw them

on the fully completely reissue or not the reissue the the anniversary tour i saw them on that and

then i saw them on the man machine palm tour but i didn't see them in the 2000s really oh i'm

jealous I'm envious of you, you know, having now discovered these records and really listened to

them thoroughly. Wow, they're so good. What's your go-to at this point?

Track 3:

[11:13] Album-wise? Sure. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Well, yeah, I think just seeing that World Container tour

as my first tour was pretty life-changing, not to be too overdramatic. You're in the right room to say

that. Yeah, they were really just top of their game. Although I have to say, like, like watching old

videos, it's not like they were ever not at the top in a way, but the World Container album was.

Track 3:

[11:56] I felt like it was just right place at the right time in a way because a lot of the music that I was

a big fan of at the time, I was sort of one of those sort of like warp tour emo kids in a way and punk

that was maybe like trendy at the time, sort of pop punk. So I liked how there were sort of elements.

I mean, you could argue, I'd love to hear others', thoughts on this, like, if it had somewhat of a pop-

punk angle on some of the songs, but still staying true to their true sound, I just think that it was

easy to get into World Container, some of those songs, and, of course, again, live, they were so

much fun. And I think in view was always, I felt like the fans just really responded to every time they

played in view. I know there were some controversial, I don't know, I feel like viewpoints on World

Container maybe at the time, or like that it was too far from what people thought they would sound

like.

Track 3:

[13:17] I think there's a lot of people that just have issues with Bob Rock, ultimately. And some of

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those people that have issues with Bob Rock were...

Track 3:

[13:30] What word am I looking for? Validated, I suppose, with the docuseries, finding out that the

band didn't really enjoy those records. Well, they did say they felt recharged with World Container

in the documentary. And it's like, okay, yeah, that's cool.

Track 3:

[13:47] Right. And then it kind of, as it progressed, which is interesting. I mean, good on them for

kind of letting us in, which makes it very... Very interesting to think about those days.

Track 3:

[14:02] But, yeah, I kind of wrote down that I remember that hip show and then the following hip

shows as feeling— so this is kind of like a tangent, but I felt very safe at those concerts, which

sounds weird. But again, with being into maybe the bands at the time, which were maybe more

punk shows, kind of more places where people would mosh or like be very aggressive in the crowd,

hip shows kind of opened up other types of music for me that I felt. And then ultimately i got away

from kind of those more punk bands because being so i'm in a i use a power wheelchair and i'm a

disabled um music fan which can be a little tricky being in a wheelchair at a show with with a bunch

of people yes in in a crowd and of course um.

Track 3:

[15:18] It just felt different. It felt safer at hip shows. The fans, I always felt, I don't know, just very at

home. Again, it's kind of a hard, it's not a tangible thing. But yeah, like I felt like hip fans were

always so inclusive and like welcoming and that sometimes I felt pretty different growing up and

pretty like not like the others. But yeah, I feel like I felt like I was with my people kind of at hip

shows. You found your people. Yeah. For sure.

Track 3:

[15:57] They definitely are. um i know that you know obviously gord has the microphone but i'm sure

all the other fellows too are very cognizant of um smaller people differently abled people

unfortunately females in general um in the front near the front where they can see it that you know

they're always on the audience to, like, hey, chill the fuck out, you know? I think they mentioned

that a little bit in the documentary sort of at their maybe earlier shows. There was maybe some... It

was a little more rowdy. Yeah. Yeah, no, and I mean, I think maybe the most rowdy show was in

London, which was an outdoor festival. Oh, wow. I forget the exact name of the park in London,

Ontario, but that was more on the rowdy side. So maybe people...

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Track 3:

[16:53] Let it all out at more of the outdoor shows versus like the indoor and especially for the Detroit

shows felt more kind of like an intimate or did you ever see them in an arena?

Track 3:

[17:11] So, no, that's the interest. I am jealous that you got to go to the last tour because that would

have been an amazing experience to see an arena show. But the biggest venue was the Caesars

Casino in Windsor. In Windsor. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I know that. No, the reason I ask was because

you've seen them in a small venue, and you've seen them outside. If you had seen them in an

arena, you've got the trifecta there. But I'm glad you got to see them outside, because there's

something magical about the Tragically Hip outside, to me. Oh, yeah. Did you feel that? I think so.

So, I mean, yeah, I think, again, looking at or kind of watching how maybe 90s tours went through.

Track 3:

[18:09] Outdoor tours, and, again, would have loved to have seen them in that era. I think it's called,

is it like another roadside attraction? That's right, yes. Yeah. Those were great fun. That sounds like

quite the experience. It was definitely, I'd say, just more rowdy from what I can remember at the

London show. But yeah, I think it felt like a celebration of kind of like summer too, right? I don't

know what you think. like yeah oh no totally did you feel like it was kind of a summer um tradition at

all like kind of maybe seeing them oh for sure like from may 24 on you know um through the labor

day if you got a chance to see them it was wonderful outside and hey for all you people listening in

london Simmer down a little, Simmer down But um Claire what do you think Should we uh Listen to

the song of the week Let's do it Alright we'll be back right after this.

Track 2:

[19:27] Hey this is Paul Langlois from the Tragically Hip Saying hello Now on with the countdown.

Track 1:

[19:33] Eighteen, And life And life.

Track 3:

[23:59] Right before we recorded this, I checked my Apple Music count, and in 2024, I listened to It's

a Good Life If You Don't Weaken 97 times. I fucking adore this track. Claire from Ann Arbor, tell me

about your feelings where this song is concerned. Well, that is an impressive number of listens, and

I completely agree with you. I'll never tire of this song can listen to it over and over and over and I

come back to the song a lot for different moods different feelings and it is it's just pretty flawless.

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Track 3:

[24:50] 100% with you 100% and it's it's I shudder to use this word, but it's very simple. It's one

verse and a chorus, and then you repeat that first verse, and then the bridge is lyrics from the first

verse just sung in a different way, and then you go out. And it's beautiful in its simplicity, you know?

Now, this is the magic trick, is it's beautiful when a magician makes a lion disappear, but there's a

thousand things going on in the background to make that lion disappear, you know? And I think that

the hip make things look easier than they are sometimes.

Track 3:

[25:40] I think, yeah, you hit it at the nail on the head. But it is simple and it's just, I feel like it's

almost something I would play to maybe someone who hasn't heard the hip, but kind of as an intro.

But I know there are other songs that I could argue would be the same. But what do you think?

Would you maybe play it for a new? I don't know how many people would say it's their favorite. I

feel like there's a lot of people who would say it's high-ranking, but I know it's my wife's favorite,

and, you know, she knows the Hips catalog pretty well, and it would be her favorite. I don't, yeah, I

don't know if I would play it right off the bat. I feel like it's a next-tier song.

Track 3:

[26:36] Right, right. I can see that. Yeah, it's, um, I feel like appreciating the way the lyrics work. Lay

over the guitar and the music of the song is, I definitely appreciate it as a huge hip fan, but I think if

I remember correctly, hearing it for the first time also was pretty.

Track 3:

[27:12] I really knew that it would be one that I wouldn't hire of and that I would always come back to

because it's so... I feel like it's a unique song. I don't know if it's a ballad. I mean, it definitely builds

up, but I like how there's... I don't know how you feel about this, but there's sort of a dichotomy

within the song, too, Like, kind of, the music is somewhat sad-sounding, but I think the lyrics

become so hopeful, and there's a sense of hope in it, and just the dichotomy of, like, the title and

the lyrics, the good life if you don't weaken, but Gord's saying it's a good life if you weaken and find

somewhere to go.

Track 3:

[28:12] So that's always, it's always been kind of just like a, it's a thinker. Oh, you just need my, you

know how sometimes you're, you get like the neck hair standing up, you know, that's happening to

me right now. Like just thinking about that song, the way you described it. Yeah. I, I, uh, I've never

thought about it that way. Um, I'm, you know, I'm not a real, I love lyrics.

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Track 3:

[28:43] But I love them almost rhythmically, and Gord is really rewarding in that regard, too.

Specifically, later period Gord really does some interesting things with his phrasing and his

cadence, I think. And this is, you know, sort of a precursor to that, I feel. Definitely. I think the poetry

is, it is a poem, almost a poem in a song form. I feel like that too, how you said kind of the phrasing

and the cadence. And my being an English major in college and eventually becoming a librarian

myself. I definitely, going back into what this band means to me, is that literature and poetry has

always been pretty important. So Gord was particularly skilled in being a poet. and the storytelling.

Track 3:

[30:04] Yeah, it's just a gift that keeps on giving, kind of. And yeah, I think his using the word

countervailing, I mean, the song has a lot of great phrases and words, but that one sticks with me,

kind of. I don't know. It's like a very interesting word that he uses. Well, you were at that Massey

Hall event, and I think it's in the book as well, them talking about Gord challenging himself by

putting songs that had never been in songs before. And I wonder now if that was in Violet Light that

that happened with. And, you know, he just was like, I'm going to put Countervaill in this fucking

song. I'm going to make it work. Exactly. I thought of that, too. i'm glad you mentioned that so if you

have a stab at what you think this is about you've got some ideas and some phrases that you you

that you've looked at and i like your idea of the you know sort of opposition in the song as well the

pull and push of you know your the dichotomy that you mentioned um is there any is there any.

Track 3:

[31:22] Anything else that sort of jumps out at you? Yes, I've read through kind of message boards

and hipmuseum.com, which is a good resource if you really want to dig into some of the lyrical

meanings and references, because Gord obviously makes a lot of references throughout his song.

So I've been a fan of Hit Museum, and I'm not sure who runs that, but hat tip to them because... Big

hat tip, and I should know who runs that. Same on me.

Track 3:

[32:05] Yeah, it's been up a long time. There has. It has, yeah, just a very pretty comprehensive

listing of meanings, but I know it may reference a graphic novel or some references to that phrase,

it's a good life if you don't weaken, or it's a great life if you don't weaken. and I've heard both. So

yeah, look it up, I think, for fans to look that particular phrase up and see what comes up. But it

seems like it dates back, the phrase. And it might be somewhat along the lines of maybe a more

recent phrase or mantra, like something like stay calm and carry on or keep calm and carry on with

one of those memes. So maybe that's sort of the vibe it gives. What do you think?

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Track 3:

[33:12] Ooh, the actual title or the entirety of the song? Yeah, I mean, there's a difference there,

right? Yeah. I think I'm kind of, the entirety of the song is like, maybe needs a whole podcast series

devoted to. So I'm kind of focusing on just the title, maybe, just to not make this a two-hour long.

Sure. No, I appreciate that. Yeah, It's a Good Life If You Don't Weekend. I don't know. Again,

rhythmically, it really works, and it shouldn't, because if you look at it on the page, it looks clumsy.

But it really works, the way he says it and the way now we all say it, even though we're just reading

it like normal, I suppose. Mm-hmm.

Track 3:

[34:03] You don't often hear, and here goes the dichotomy again, you don't often hear, you know,

good and weaken in the same utterance, you know? So there's this sort of push and pull or yin and

yang right in the title right there. And I don't know if that's supposed to be something that, you

know, gives it away, but it doesn't to me. It doesn't give it away. But it certainly could be something.

I like that aspect, too, how the connotation is sort of strong equals good and weak equals bad in a

very simplistic way. Um, so, again, sort of a, this is probably just in my experience, but, yeah, I like,

I like how.

Track 3:

[35:05] Again, as a physically disabled fan, that you think about things like this when you listen to

the Tragically Hip, like, what's the connotation of being weak? Is it necessarily a bad thing or could

it be a good thing right yeah if you find somewhere to go exactly and go somewhere where go

somewhere you're needed that's right oh the vocals in that part are great right like the paul vocals

isn't that fantastic yeah that was always just a huge treat um hearing that live it's actually gourd too

sorry i should say it's gourd sinclair as well Now that I say that. But, Paul, you hear much more.

And the COVID era version with Feist, like how fucking incredible was that? That was so cool. I

don't know how many times you've watched that, or if you have the statistics on. I don't have those

numbers available. The accountant is on a break right now. I think mine's pretty high up there on

that YouTube video, just that's a...

Track 3:

[36:24] That was a trait, too, that they recorded. Yeah, sure was. Just to see them playing and

smiling. And that's, again, that Massey Hall event. To see them laughing after watching the

documentary and having it be so heavy, you know, to see them in person and hear them sort of

share anecdotes and then laugh was so great. What was your experience of that event like? Like, I

know you have something that you can share with us about that event. I do. I do. I kind of saved it

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for the end. There's just a lot.

Track 3:

[37:02] But that, yeah, so I saw that they announced it, like, not too long before the actual event in

Toronto. So I kind of a little bit went back and forth, like, how realistic is it to travel from, of course,

Michigan? But you know luckily not too far to get to Toronto and yeah decided to just go for it

because again I was I think sounds like you too that the documentary and book released really um

brought up all those fan feelings again like up to the up to the surface and um yeah good timing

from them to do that event while we're all thinking about the documentary. So I was kind of so

inspired that actually a whole full-fledged like fan letter came to mind that I wrote out and sent them

a piece of fan mail. So making myself sort of sound like a.

Track 3:

[38:15] I don't know, Backstreet Boys or like Hanson fan or something that like sends out fan mail.

But yeah, it was just kind of like, okay, I have lots of thoughts to send. And it was pretty amazing

because they responded and were just kind enough. And generous with their time that before the

show, I got to sit down with Paul, Rob, Johnny, and Gord Sinclair, and it still feels, well, definitely

like a blur. So I can't tell you too many details other than I was just in on cloud nine, for sure.

Absolutely, rightly so. And, yeah, it was an amazing, a really amazing talk that they did. I mean, I

think we were all in that room feeling like it was almost cathartic in a way, like being back at sort of

a hip event again after so long. Yeah.

Track 3:

[39:42] And just being together and then, yeah, like you said, just hearing how much joy they have

when they talk about their experience and their lives, their amazing lives and how they've shared it

and how we've all shared in it as fans. So that memory will stick with me for a very, very, very long

time. Well, I feel fortunate that I get to sit in this seat and listen to people's experiences about this

wonderful band and how they've been touched and moved emotionally and sonically by this band

for 40 years now. And it's just fucking tremendous. So, Claire from Ann Arbor, I really want to thank

you for stopping by today. I wonder if you have anything you'd like to plug. Well, thanks so much,

JD. I don't, not particularly. Okay. But, yeah, I'm just so grateful to be on this Top 40 podcast.

Thanks for the chat. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Take care. Of course. Pick up your

shit.

Track 2:

[41:08] Thanks for listening to the tragically hip top 40 countdown to email us send an email to tth

top 40 at gmail.com we're social find us on all the socials at tth top 40, Doovra! Podcasts and such.

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