Have we oversimplified sauna? A brief history of sauna marketing in North America.

Episode debuted at the Seattle Sauna Festival 2025

Nathan's Journey from Infrared to Real Sauna.

A candid journey from infrared hype to authentic Finnish sauna, highlighting why real heat, löyly, and hot–cold contrast are so compelling. We discuss practice over marketing—ventilation, simple rituals, and family-friendly routines that deliver presence and stress relief. And we learn about Nathan's eye toward a future wood-fired sauna.

PODCAST LINKS

https://www.theupperbench.com

https://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/

https://www.facebook.com/theupperbench

CONTENTS

00:00 Introduction and how Risto and Nathan became friends

03:56 Nathan's first hot cold experiences

05:24 Selecting and buying and infrared "sauna"

07:45 Scientology and niacin

14:03 Experience with his IR

16:03 Getting a real sauna

17:59 Stress relief and mental health benefits

20:23 Saunaing with a young child

25:24 Nathan's sauna practice

37:58 Why IR doesn't cut it

39:00 The aim of sauna: sweat or something more?

42:35 Another lackluster IR experience

46:38 How financial motivations skew sauna opinions

50:36 Any plans for a wood-burning sauna?

Episode 61 - Risto, Eero, and Sam return to the Upper Bench to dig into public vs. private sauna, heater tech (smoke, wood, flip-lid electric), masonry vs. metal, a simple rating framework for public saunas—and Sam’s upcoming move to Texas.

PODCAST LINKS

https://www.theupperbench.com

https://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/

https://www.facebook.com/theupperbench

CONTENTS

00:00 Introduction

06:59 Updates + Risto's lofted build

08:18 Flip-lid heater & heat prefs

12:47 Eero's Finland heater rebuild & boiling water tanks

19:18 Stoves, rocks, masonry

27:20 Public vs. private, ratings, utility vs. social, travel + Sam moves to TX

Episode 060 - Eero and Risto brainstorm about the NASS ambassador program and how to categorize different saunas in North America.If you have ideas, please leave them in the comments!

Episode 59 - Michael Nordskog, author of The Opposite of Cold, joins the Upper Bench podcast to discuss his book and details about his two wonderful saunas.GUEST LINKShttps://www.facebook.com/TheOppositeofColdhttps://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816656820/the-opposite-of-cold/UPPER BENCH LINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchCONTENTS00:00 Introduction02:19 Writing the Opposite of Cold07:11 Michael's cedar log sauna16:01 How many savusaunas are there in North America27:07 Matti Kaups archive29:43 Michael's sauna practice34:22 His sauna build42:52 Sauna dogma and guidelines44:20 Oslo sauna visit with Mikkel Aaland50:38 Did Norwegian immigrants bring badstue (sauna) with them?52:51 Predictions for the future of sauna

Catching up after a few weeks on the road... and talking about Eero's visit to the sauna village in Finland where he used a pit sauna and a two-story sauna. And Risto shows some photos of the NY savusauna he visited.

Thank you Bryon MacWilliams, Catskill Weather, and Zach for the warm hospitality at Southampton Spa.

CONTENT

00:00 Intro

01:57 Eero's visit to Finn Camp

09:20 Savusauna in the Catskills

17:50 Pit sauna at the sauna village

21:36 Two-story sauna at the sauna village

24:15 Why you should burn aspen for your final round

25:38 Southampton spa review

30:23 Eero's summer plans

33:11 Listener question about sauna windows

James Phelps joins us to get super geeky about sauna construction.We dive deep into sauna ventilation, CO₂ testing, and stove design. James shares insights from his hands-on experiments and discusses what he learned writing his book Fire & Ice. Along the way, we cover practical tips for building a better sauna, managing humidity, and creating a truly breathable space.

JAMES' BOOK

https://www.amazon.com/Fire-Ice-tradition-technology-balanced/dp/B0D2RPWZS2/

UPPER BENCH LINKS

https://www.theupperbench.com

https://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/

https://www.facebook.com/theupperbench

Theme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"CONTENTS00:00 Introduction and meeting our guest James Phelps06:11 How he decided to build a sauna08:07 Exploring different sauna construction possibilities09:30 Getting ventilation right; comparing different strategies13:01 Prevailing winds and ventilation as seen with sweat lodge ventilation14:51 Cold plunge and winter experience16:47 Different stoves options and interior vs exterior feed20:00 Preheating the sauna: “Close your eyes and you can't tell where the stove is”22:20 High rock mass vs low rock mass32:37 Sharing his findings and writing a book36:00 CO₂ testing and results37:34 Will galvanized fasteners rust in a sauna?39:24 How should a sauna smell? Using essential oil and other scents48:04 Listener question about vent placement in garage sauna50:17 James’ cold plunge routine and preferred sauna temp52:41 Using sauna for recovery post-surgery54:34 Closing comments

On this episode of The Upper Bench, Sam and Risto welcome Finnish American sauna entrepreneur Dan Raisanen whose family sauna history is rooted in Cokato, Minnesota and is now running his own sauna company in Michigan.Sauna Bath Companyhttps://www.saunabath.coLINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchTheme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"

Wade Litt - Sauna in Ohio and Other Adventures - 055On this episode of The Upper Bench, Eero and Risto welcome sauna entrepreneur Wade Litt to explore the sauna scene in Ohio and hear about his sauna adventures.LÖ-LU Saunahttps://lo-lu.comLINKShttps://www.theupperbench.comhttps://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/https://www.facebook.com/theupperbenchPhilly Steam with Bryonhttps://www.facebook.com/events/691959186507593Theme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"CONTENT00:00 Introduction & Philly Steam-Up02:49 Wade Litt - first sauna experiences and parent's build10:23 Building his mobile sauna14:45 Mobile sauna use and location; running a business15:45 Sauna adventures and exploration21:41 Wade's favorite public saunas23:51 Banyas vs public "saunas"30:07 Saunas Wade would like to visit31:20 Future business plans34:25 Viewer Questions: Vegas sauna; safe for a single woman to visit Helsinki; Eero's savusauna38:37 Advice for starting a sauna business start-ups

On this episode of The Upper Bench, Eero and Risto welcome Finnish American sauna entrepreneur Larry Anderson to explore the deep-rooted sauna traditions of Michigan’s Copper Country. They discuss how homemade wood‑burning stoves packed with heavy rocks create a uniquely soft, steam‑driven heat and trace the evolution from childhood basement saunas to modern barrel and mobile builds. We also preview the upcoming Memorial Day sweat in Philadelphia with Bryon MacWilliams!

Copper Country Saunahttps://coppercountrysauna.com

LINKShttps://www.theupperbench.com

https://www.instagram.com/upper.bench.podcast/

https://www.facebook.com/theupperbench

Philly Steam with Bryon

https://www.facebook.com/events/691959186507593

Theme Music: Conga Se Menne "Guess Who's Coming to Sauna"

CONTENT

00:00 Welcome and intro Larry

03:16 What is copper country sauna?

05:52 Larry's history with sauna

10:04 Historic public and converted SAVUsaunas

27:00 Old-school vs modern sauna practice

31:02 Larry's SIX !! saunas

36:15 Most interesting saunas Larry has been in

40:23 Experience is the best teacher for students of traditional sauna

41:51 favorite temperature in the sauna

45:00 Risto's sales pitch for checking out the U.P. sauna scene

46:46 Tips for building a sauna on a budget (don't rush and spread it out over a couple years)

49:07 Digging to find the good saunas in North America (they are out there!)