In this episode, we dive into the quiet tremors, missed reforms, and whispered theories swirling around the Vatican under Pope Leo XIV — a pontificate where change seems to stroll rather than sprint. Maggie and Bob explore how power really flows inside the Leonine Walls, why slowness is sometimes a strategy, and why the phrase “deep state” both tempts and misleads when applied to the Church’s ancient machinery.

Want more about the Vatican? Here you’re some interesting podcast episodes.

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