The Rev. Gracie Payne is a Minister of Word and Sacrament in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) living in Indianapolis, where she has been pastoring young adults at Second Presbyterian Church; working with guests and new members; and building a ministry from the ground up. in part two of our conversation, Gracie and I discussed the powerful lure of the “Finished Self”, and how Christ’s resistance to it shapes our ministries; and why Gracie sees herself as a guest in people's lives, prompting her to ask the questions people may not be asked in other spaces.

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