In this episode of The Welcome Table, Max Gaston sits down with Liz Bodamer, Senior Director of Research at the Law School Admission Council (LSAC), to explore the evolving landscape of law school admissions and the challenges facing DEI in legal education.

As law schools adapt to major shifts in admissions policies, including the Supreme Court’s recent ruling on affirmative action, Max and Liz discuss how these changes impact access, opportunity, and equity. Drawing on insights from LSAC’s 2024 Knowledge Report, they examine the barriers prospective law students face, from financial hurdles to the hidden curriculum, and what institutions can do to uphold their commitments to diversity.

Whether you’re a future law student, legal educator, or advocate for inclusion, this conversation provides a critical look at the intersection of law, policy, and equity in higher education—and what comes next.

In this episode of The DEI Podcast, we explore the rich and multifaceted nature of Black identity. Max is joined by three Notre Dame Law students, each offering a unique perspective shaped by their cultural backgrounds, lived experiences, and legal aspirations.

Together, they challenge the monolithic perception of Blackness, discussing cultural assumptions, belonging in Black spaces, and the impact of identity on their law school journeys. The conversation also highlights the importance of cultural representation and how their backgrounds influence their approach to law and justice.

Whether you're a law student, a DEI advocate, or simply interested in the intersection of culture, identity, and the legal profession, this episode provides a thoughtful and engaging exploration of the diversity within Black identity.

Judicial clerkships are typically characterized as an unadulterated good—lifelong mentor-mentee relationships between judges and law clerks that confer professional benefits. But little information exists to help law students identify positive work environments and avoid judges who mistreat their clerks.

At the Legal Accountability Project, Aliza Shatzman works to ensure that law clerks have positive clerkship experiences, and to provide resources to those who do not. In this conversation, Aliza describes her personal experiences with gender discrimination, harassment, and retaliation by a former DC Judge. Aliza also explains how Title VII of the Civil Rights Act does not extend to federal judicial employees, the need for greater diversity within judicial chambers, and the work LAP is doing to support greater judicial accountability.

Topics covered with timestamps:

· 3:01 – Discussing what clerkships are, how they are messaged, and how students go about getting clerkships.

· 8:23 – Aliza discusses her experience with harassment and mistreatment during her judicial clerkship and the reputational harm inflicted on her by her former judge following her clerkship.

· 13:11 – Discussing the power disparity between judges and law clerks and how that disparity and the threat of retribution and reputational harm makes it difficult for law clerks to speak out in the face of mistreatment.

· 17:17 – Discussing the mental health consequences for judicial law clerks who are mistreated by judges.

· 19:32 – Aliza explains how she went on to found the Legal Accountability Project following her negative clerkship experience.

· 22:22 – Discussing the problem of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act not extending to federal judicial employees and the role Law Schools can play in protecting students who will go on to be law clerks.

· 30:55 – Discussing the importance of judicial ethics and the state of the judiciary overall regarding ethics and accountability.

· 34:04 – Aliza discusses the centralized clerkships database being developed by the Legal Accountability Project—tech that democratizes information about judges so law students have more information about judges before making decisions on where to clerk.

· 37:39 – Discussing the lack of diversity in judicial chambers and the hiring practices of judges as reported in the recent publication, Law Clerk Selection and Diversity: Insights From Fifty Sitting Judges of the Federal Courts of Appeals.

· 43:27 – Aliza discusses the benefits of diversity in judicial chambers to support fair and equitable legal problem solving.

· 46:24 – Discussing the role of judges in judicial reform and the work of the Legal Accountability Project.

In his best-selling book, The Color of Law, Richard Rothstein demolished the de facto segregation myth that Black and White Americans live separately by choice, providing the most forceful argument ever published on how federal, state, and local governments gave rise to and reinforced neighborhood segregation. Aware that twenty-first-century segregation continues to promote entrenched inequality and underlie our most serious social problems, Richard has partnered with housing policy expert Leah Rothstein to write JUST ACTION: How to Challenge Racial Segregation Enacted Under the Color of Law.

JUST ACTION provides bona fide solutions, based on decades of study and experience, that activists and their supporters can undertake in their own communities to address historical inequities, and shows how community groups can press those in government and the private sector that imposed segregation to finally take responsibility for reversing the harm, creating victories that might finally challenge residential segregation and help remedy America’s profoundly unconstitutional past.

In this episode of the DEI Podcast, Max sits down with civil rights attorney and Senior Advisor at Democracy Forward, Sunu Chandy, to explore the shifting legal landscape of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs over a year after the Supreme Court’s historic decision to strike down affirmative action in college admissions.

Last June marked the one-year anniversary of this landmark ruling. In its wake, anti-equity organizations have sought to weaponize the courts against a range of DEI programs, creating legal challenges that have generated significant media attention and deterred law firms, executives, and administrators who fear litigation could stifle efforts to create fair and equitable workplaces.

But aside from the headlines, just how much have those suits actually accomplished? Have they had any real impact in the courts, or are they merely expensive distractions, with their earned media providing louder bark than legal bite?

Sunu recently led a new report that highlights key analyses following Democracy Forward’s review of over seventy cases brought by anti-equity actors against DEI-related programs across various contexts. The findings challenge the conventional wisdom surrounding these cases and suggest that SFFA has not fundamentally altered the legal frameworks in the vast majority of public and private sector contexts.

Read the full report from Democracy Forward here: https://democracyforward.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/DF-DEI-Report_Final-Proof_070224.pdf

On this episode of the DEI Podcast, Max is joined in the studio by Marisa Simon, the Director of Admissions at Notre Dame Law School. Together, they answer questions submitted online by prospective students about the law school and the admissions process. From considerations for GPA and LSAT splitters to crafting a compelling personal statement, Marisa and Max cover it all.

They also delve into the vibrant culture of inclusion and belonging at Notre Dame Law, highlighting the unique charm that sets the institution apart. Whether you’re dreaming of a legal career or simply intrigued by the world of admissions, this episode is both enlightening and engaging. Tune in and discover what makes Notre Dame Law School a place like no other!

In this episode of the DEI Podcast, Max talks with Jemar Tisby, New York Times bestselling author and Notre Dame alum, about his latest book, The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance. Jemar’s book illuminates the often-overlooked heroes of the racial justice movement and explores how faith has deeply influenced the struggle for racial equality across both historical and contemporary contexts.

Max and Jemar delve into the crucial role of faith in civil rights and racial justice, the emergence of the Black church as a powerful space of resistance, and the evolving nature of racial injustice. They also discuss the contributions of White allies, the vital role of Black women during the civil rights era, and common misinterpretations of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.’s legacy. Throughout their conversation, Jemar highlights the enduring power of resilience, the importance of Black representation, and how these elements continue to inspire and shape contemporary movements for justice.

In this episode of the DEI Podcast, Max Gaston sits down with Diahann Billings, attorney, and CEO of the Ross Initiative in Sports for Equality (RISE), to explore the transformative power of sports in driving social change. They dive into how sports can influence individual behavior, unite diverse communities, and challenge social inequities. Diahann shares insights on key RISE programs, including their work with athletes to bridge racial and economic divides and their initiatives to promote diversity in sports leadership.

The conversation also touches on the current political climate, the push for fair pay in women's sports, and the challenges of addressing racism within fanbases. Listen in to learn how RISE is leveraging the unifying nature of sports to create more inclusive environments and how you can support their mission to advance equality and justice both on and off the field.

According to research, bias is a habit that begins to take shape at an early age. As we form our own social identities surrounding things like ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, religion, and gender, we start to identify as members of a specific group of people. These identities in many ways can shape how we see and treat others — and how others see and treat us.

At the University of Wisconsin–Madison, Dr. William Cox, Dr. Patricia Devine, and their colleagues developed the bias habit-breaking intervention, an evidence-based approach which builds on more than 30 years of scientific research on prejudice, stereotyping, and bias, and has been proven to reduce bias in people’s attitudes and behavior long-term. Dr. Cox is the Principal Investigator of the Stereotyping and Bias Research (SABR) Lab in the Department of Psychology at the University of Wisconsin–Madison, and the founder of Inequity Agents of Change, a 501(c)(3) dedicated to reducing bias, creating inclusion, and promoting equity. In this conversation,

Dr. Cox explains how bias impacts the mind. He then provides proven strategies for reducing bias, and identifies common approaches such as color-blindness that people often take to address bias that often create more bias rather than less.

Topics covered with timestamps:

2:44 – Why a scientific, evidence-based approach is the best method for reducing bias.

7:29 – The origins of “bias as a habit” and a summary of the bias habit-breaking intervention model.

13:30 – How stereotypes can create and guide our expectations about others.

17:13 – People in society are often penalized if they violate the stereotypes we hold for them.

20:04 – Once a stereotype is a habit of mind, even if we experience that it’s wrong 75% of the time, confirmation bias causes us to give more credit to our stereotype than to the contrary evidence.

28:44 – Perspective taking as a strategy for reducing bias.

36:18 – How untested assumptions can reinforce stereotypes and cause them to self-perpetuate.

38:57 – Stereotype replacement as a strategy for reducing bias.

42:20 – Considering situational explanations as a strategy for reducing bias.

46:14 – Broadening your media input as a strategy for reducing bias.

51:23 – Colorblindness, ignoring group status, believing in personal objectivity, and stereotype suppression fail as approaches to reduce bias and create more bias rather than less.

57:03 – The importance of speaking up when you see bias occurring.

Have you ever felt like an imposter? Unqualified for the job, less intelligent than your classmates, or undeserving of your accomplishments, and that somehow you managed to convince others you were more capable than you really are?

In this episode of the DEI Podcast with Max Gaston, we revisit Max's conversation with Dr. Kevin Cokley, a psychologist at the University of Michigan who studies the imposter phenomenon. Dr. Cokley researches the relationship between imposter feelings, mental health, and academic outcomes among students from underrepresented communities. Listen as he discusses his research and experience with imposter feelings, and how we can learn to use these feelings as a motivation rather than a limitation in our daily lives.