Michael Wernick worked as a public servant for decades. His career culminated in a term as the Clerk of the Privvy Council—the most senior public servant in Canada. But before that, he had a front-row seat to Canada’s constitutional negotiations, and the crisis that almost tore the country apart.

So when he says you have to accept what won’t change, and work with what will, he speaks from experience.

We’ve long wanted to talk with Michael about his time in office, and now that he’s retired—and writing about governing the nation—he’s able to speak more freely about the challenges to modernization. It’s a candid conversation on why change is hard, some of the misconceptions people have about the Federal government, and why he’s hopefuly that modernization is coming.