Theology Kills

January Jaxon and Andrew McRae talk with author, educator and philanthropist Suzanne Ross, whose book "The Wicked Truth: When Good People Do Bad Things" is entering its second edition. Suzanne shares her struggles with the Bible's brutality, her insights into mimetic theory, and how she uses the popular musical "Wicked" to help raise awareness of the mechanisms of human violence.

Connect with Suzanne:

• Book: The Wicked Truth: Why Good People Do Bad Things 
• Podcast: Third Things First
• Website: https://the-wicked-truth.ghost.io
• Substack: https://thewickedtruthsr.substack.com/

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, creativity as a spiritual practice, and the role of the arts in everyday peacemaking.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Suzanne Ross on The Wicked Truth and the Myth of "Good Violence"

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

How can we read a violent Bible without becoming violent ourselves? In the Season One finale, January Jaxon and Andrew McRae turn to the alarming imagery of Hosea and ask what happens when we stop expecting scripture to give us easy answers. Rather than explaining away its violence — or simply throwing out the passages they don’t like — they explore what changes when we approach the Bible humbly as an encounter with God instead of an instruction manual to master. McRae’s close reading of Hosea invites a revelation of trust, repentance, and the disturbing grace of letting our certainty die so that something far more alive can take root.

You’ll hear:

• Hosea’s radical implication that divine judgment isn’t a punishment that destroys us but a light that exposes what’s killing us
• How Internal Family Systems interrupts scandal by making room for a new desire
• Why the need to know what scripture means can get in the way of actually reading it
• Why the Bible’s disturbing passages may need our attention more than our allegiance or rejection

PLUS the most important practice for any Christian: actually reading the Bible.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and engaging difficult biblical texts without defending OR discarding their violence.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introducing Hosea through Jezreel

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if repentance isn’t self-castigation but a rigorous renunciation of our violence? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae explore what becomes possible when we’re safe enough, loved enough, and honest enough to admit we’ve done harm. Repentance, they argue, is the lifelong vocation of unlearning our violent shortcuts to psychological & social stability so we can make peace contagious in the midst of a world at war.

CONTENT WARNING: This episode includes an extensive discussion of the suicide of Judas Iscariot. Please be gentle with yourself as you listen.

You’ll hear:

• How the Law, the Gospel, and the Reformation point to movements of God in Christian history
• Why violence isn’t just physical or emotional harm
• How living Jesus’ “narrow way” is like the TARDIS — bigger on the inside!
• Why loving Jesus means grieving (not blaming) Judas Iscariot

PLUS a Daily Examen practice for training your attention toward God’s presence, noticing when you’ve turned another person into an obstacle, and imagining a more loving response tomorrow.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the creative adventure of Christian discipleship.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if obedience isn’t about mindless rule-following, but about whose voice we trust to help us interpret our reality? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae dive into the linguistic roots of the word “obedience” and draw parallels with René Girard’s concept of méconnaissance, or misrecognition. Moving from the neuroscience of human attention to Simone Weil’s theology of affliction, they look at how “The Father of Lies” warps the human imagination and how the Crucifixion re-orients us to the truth that God withholds nothing from us — not even God’s own life.

You’ll hear:

• The roots of obedience as “listening toward” and why that might change how we understand the Fall
• Why Jesus calls Satan “a murderer from the beginning,” even though we never see the devil raise a blade
• How Jesus exposes the lie at the heart of accusation without retaliating against his accusers
• Why disbelieving lies requires more than tearing false stories down — it requires learning what truth feels like in the body

PLUS January demonstrates The Work of Byron Katie, a practice of embodied inquiry that can help us stop obeying the lies that keep us trapped.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the neuroscience of human attention.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if peace isn’t the absence of conflict, but the presence of integrity? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae explore Jesus’ startling claim that he came not to bring peace, but division — and how his presence exposes the false peace we create through compliance, control, and avoidance. Drawing on psychologist Karen Horney’s conflict coping strategies and master coach Jen Johnsen’s model of conflict-with-integrity, they imagine a nonviolent way of staying in relationship when tensions threaten to tear us apart.

You’ll hear:

• Karen Horney’s three conflict strategies (and why they produce false peace)
• How presence, truth, and kindness bring us back into wholeness
• How Thomas Merton’s little brother modeled integrity in a moment of conflict
• The power of Jesus’ prayer to see his enemies through God’s eyes — not his own

PLUS an exercise for identifying where violent social systems are mirrored in your own inner life, so you can practice peace from the inside out.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the power of active nonviolence to transform violent systems.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if your body isn’t a liability to control or escape, but a site of divine revelation and relationship? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae confront the contamination anxiety that distorts Christian theologies of the body, and explore how the Incarnation contradicts that disgust with radical, embodied presence. Culminating in a Eucharistic vision of wholeness, they challenge listeners to imagine what’s possible when we follow Jesus’ example of encountering, instead of expelling, the Other.

You’ll hear:

• Why tying holiness to purity drives shame, exclusion, and violence
• Why disgust — not just desire — fuels the scapegoat mechanism
• What Paul actually meant by “flesh” (and why it’s not your body)
• What happens when Jesus crosses his culture’s boundaries of disease, gender, and social status
• How Christ’s Holy Spirit redefines holiness as catholicity rather than purity

PLUS a practice for listening to your body as a trustworthy source of wisdom in everyday discernment.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and embodied Christianity.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if vulnerability isn’t a weakness to overcome, but a creative power to embrace? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae turn to Mary, the mother of Jesus, as the counterpoint to Eve — a living model of what it means to trust God despite confusion, risk, and pain. From the Annunciation to the wedding at Cana to the grief of the Crucifixion, they explore how Mary’s trust gave birth to divine Love in the world.

You’ll hear:

• How Mary’s response to lack at Cana rewrites Eve’s story in the Garden
• Why faith is actually the prerequisite for curiosity, not its antithesis
• Why the question of inerrancy is a category error when it comes to Christian scripture
• What becomes possible when we stay present to pain instead of escaping or controlling it

PLUS an everyday practice of curiosity and witness that transforms aggravation into trust.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian theology, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the power of faith to create peace even in a world warped by war.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if blame isn’t a path to justice, but a catharsis for pain we don’t know how to process? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae continue their reading of Genesis, interpreting the story of Cain and Abel as an attempt to solve inner conflict by exporting it. Charting a connection from Eve’s self-betrayal to the brother-betrayal of her children, Jaxon and McRae draw on René Girard and Internal Family Systems to suggest that violence begins long before physical harm is done — in the moment we decide someone is an obstacle to overcome instead of a person to love.

You’ll hear:

• How internal shame becomes external blame
• Why disgust — not just desire — drives the scapegoat mechanism
• Why eliminating the “problem person” never creates lasting peace 
• The important distinction between naming harm and needing a villain

PLUS practices of confession and forgiveness that interrupt self-righteousness and help us recognize ourselves in the person we blame.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and breaking cycles of relational violence.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Click here to view this episode's transcript.

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.

What if shame isn’t just a feeling, but an internalized form of violence? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae explore a reading of Genesis 3 through the eyes of the victim, interpreting humanity’s Fall into sin as an inflicted wound, not a willful disobedience. Drawing a parallel between the anthropology of René Girard and the psychological model mapped by Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy, they imagine a path beyond violence rooted in trust, integration, and the refusal to war against ourselves.

You’ll hear:

• Why we understand shame as a violence against ourselves
• How Girard’s prohibition, sacrifice, and myth echo IFS managers, firefighters, and exiles — both stabilize identity by concealing violence
• Why “perfect love casts out fear” might mean embrace, not expulsion
• What the Trinitarian nature of God may show us about a way to be human without violence

PLUS a “Letters from Unconditional Love” practice to build the habit of speaking with compassion instead of accusation.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and emotionally healthy theology.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

What if the Kingdom of Heaven isn’t a perfection to achieve but a gift to receive? January Jaxon and Andrew McRae unpack the Bible’s quietly subversive use of pregnancy as a metaphor for creativity — the vulnerable, sometimes-painful labor of bringing aliveness into the world. Contrasting Sarah’s violence with Hannah’s trust, the hosts follow Saint Paul in imagining a Kingdom born from cooperation instead of control.

You’ll hear:

• Why it’s a form of violence when we try to achieve God’s promises instead of receiving them 
• Why Genesis 3:16 might not be about divine punishment, gender hierarchy, or marital submission
• How Paul’s Christian conversion transformed his understanding of power from militant retribution into motherhood, birth pangs, and nursing
• The important distinction between healthy receiving and harmful passivity

PLUS a “mini-manifesto” exercise to help your creativity work toward your values — not against them.

Ideal for listeners interested in Girardian mimetic theory, Internal Family Systems as a spiritual practice, and the theology of creativity.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Creativity as Pregnancy:
 Sarah, Hannah, and Creating Love Instead of Violence

Note: This podcast is a personal exploration of theology, creativity, and human experience. January Jaxon and Andrew McRae are not medical or mental health professionals, and nothing in this podcast should be understood as medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Our discussions are general and are not a substitute for personalized care. If you need medical or mental health support, we encourage you to seek care from a qualified professional.