This is our twelfth episode of the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. We will discuss thinkers and doers and the craft cocktail recipe - the Boulevard Cocktail. This podcast episode features Whiskey Maker - Doug Hall and Whiskey Drinker - Tripp Babbitt.

Show Notes

[00:00:04] Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy - Episode 12

[00:00:26] Thinkers and Doers

[00:02:32] People Need to Participate and Tiebreaker is a Test

[00:04:49] Exceptions to the Participation of Employees

[00:05:41] Be Proud of What You Make

[00:06:14] Bartenders Want Better Products

[00:07:35] What is a Single Malt?

[00:09:41] The Craft Cocktail Recipe - Boulevard Cocktail

[00:10:03] Dale Degroff

[00:12:06] The Boulevard Cocktail - Step 1

[00:12:14] Step 2

[00:12:19] Step 3

[00:12:25] Step 4

[00:12:27] Step 5

[00:12:29] Step 6

 

 

Transcript

Tripp: [00:00:04] This is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcasts where we're going to take you behind the scenes on what it takes to build a whisk(e)y distillery business. The Eureka ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft whisk(e)y Company like has never been done before.

 

Tripp: [00:00:26] Ok. What's move to the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. So you know we've talked before Doug about this the concept of thinkers and doers and and you know leveraging diversity. How does this play out in a whisk(e)y distillery. What's going on with that.

 

Doug: [00:00:46] Ok. So you know I've talked about. Thinkers and doers and the need for collaboration so that we don't become like the McCoys and the Hatfields so you know and we got to come together. The problem is is that to creating a distillery takes money and so oftentimes we get investors or different people involved in it. And they've been successful in the business world and the way they know how to do things is to set up organizational charts and departments and allocate who does what things. I mean that's just what they know. That's what they know. And so you know as the company gets going for efficiency purposes you know you just do your job you do your job and somehow magically all the connections will work together. Now that's what it's run by a corporate person when it's run by a true entrepreneur somebody who started up companies you know many of them like I started my first one at age 12 I started doing things I've been doing it forever. You don't tend to have that you tend to have more of a collaborative community and while everybody will have maybe a job they do they all have a blend of knowledge about everything else and in fact what I found it's like if you if you sort of magically showed up at the distillery which is in the former garage of the Eureka ranch just just west of the ranch and there was a meeting going on here you would hear somebody talking about say we're working on a new idea for a new product. Somebody might be talking about packaging and other won't be talking about supply chain. Can we get the wood then somebody else might be talking about the economics is to what to do. Another person may maybe turning around and say OK. So if I was to pitch this to a bar here's what I would say.

 

Doug: [00:02:32] And you would hear everybody doing it and the same person that talked marketing would suddenly be talking about product. OK. And you'd have a hard time figuring out who did what. You might figure it out but it would be pretty hard to figure out who's doing what. Because everybody's involved in all the decisions and that's not to say that we debate to compromise but because at the end of the day as a leader it's my job to make the final decision and they respect that. But they've all been heard and we've all debated it. And most important of all when somebody feels really strongly about it I never make the call. We just run a test we just run a test. I mean we had a debate recently on on some of our products on the next generation of products. If I said Screw it let's just run the test. We ran the test and found out one of them yes we should change it. The other one now wasn't a good idea. I just ran a quantum test read that night had the data and and so even when you're wrong the facts are there and so everybody feels like I've got a voice in this. I've got a voice in this. And so when you're building your distillery you've got a setup from the beginning to get people to understand. I know you've got somebody who's just running the stills fine but they gotta know how to sell the stuff to the people that are out front who are selling. And in your tasting room have got to understand how the products actually made and they've got to understand the math and the consequences associated with different decisions. Russ you only got to use a part of their brain if you want to get fully engaged they've got to know more.

 

Doug: [00:04:06] So you got to help them understand so so is it.

 

Tripp: [00:04:14] So you you know you said as a CEO you make the decision. But people don't feel like they're being stepped on from from a standpoint of coming up with an idea or something like that because you've built in to the system saying OK if we you know I don't know what what the determining factors are maybe somebody feels strongly even though everybody else disagrees with them then your action that is to say well what's wrong to test.

 

Doug: [00:04:47] Yeah most of the time.

 

Tripp: [00:04:48] Ok.

 

Doug: [00:04:49] Most the time when it doesn't. Now there are exceptions. Ok. There are exceptions. Legality issues. All right. Regulatory issues where there's financial or legal exposure I'm sorry. That's not negotiable. Okay. Those are those are facts.

 

Doug: [00:05:11] We never have ethical issues because that's just not the type of team in some organizations that might be ethical issues. But we just don't have that because that's not the way we are. But there are certain times when there's decisions where the leader has to make it and even when there's consequences it's like we had a product where you know when it's mission focused you know we had a product that was OK it was OK it was OK it was good. Some of our partners wanted to do it. It was OK. And I turned around and I looked at the test data and it was close.

 

Doug: [00:05:41] It was OK and I finally said the team I said anybody proud of this product. No no no it's just it's OK. I said Screw it let's not do it let's blow it up. And so we blew it up and I said Make something you're proud of. I don't want to sell crappy product.

 

Doug: [00:05:58] I said That's my new standard don't sell crappy product and aggressive. Laughs.

 

Tripp: [00:06:06] That's a low bar there.

 

Doug: [00:06:07] That's kind of a cool concept only going to do stuff you're proud of. We're not going to sell crap. Yeah it's a good concept.

 

Doug: [00:06:14] Now the problem is it's in the spirits business. There's many people selling the number one the craft whisky association did a survey of bartenders to say what's your advice to craft spirits things. And the number one thing they said was You're got to make better quality products. And because aging takes so long they sell products too soon and they just ruin their reputation and they just the products are just not very good. Now that's why our time compression is helpful to them because they can sell time compression products they can build a nice business there. And in addition to not in place of our products can be like their you know their volume products. The specialty products allow people to make their own custom whisky while their products you know classically age can be like their single malts as in their you know their premium and expression. And I can buy them the time that enables them to be able to wait the appropriate time to make the product actually wonderful.

 

[00:07:15] So Doug let me let me just. For people like me that I don't consider myself necessarily you know a complete novice but at the same time when you say single malt for somebody listening that may be new to the you know to some of the language maybe they drink whisk(e)y But you know if they say single malt what does that mean.

 

[00:07:35] So that would be a product that's made generally. So this is legal definition in Scotland a single malt is one distillery one green generally barley. OK. OK. And now in the U.S. there is there's a work going on by the Kraft folks which I encourage which is to get single malt an official category.

 

Doug: [00:08:00] Right now it's fanciful marketing words when you say single malt barley whisk(e)y barley whisk(e)y is a category of product. Single malt is sort of marketing puffery because it's not regulated yet and creating that standard here so that we can do single malt just like they do in Scotland and in other places you can do it now. It's just not an official category.

 

Tripp: [00:08:24] Ok. So it's a difference than the way Scotland does it.

 

Doug: [00:08:27] Yeah. And I'll be I'll be honest with you while. Why I love Scotch whisky I love Highland Park. Let me count it. No question when I went to the North Pole you know and the North Pole would you drink your drink. Highland Park 18. OK. My favorite classic whisky in the world by five. And I'm a zealot for it. That said if you want creative an amazing new tastes it is much easier to make them. If you're a whisk(e)y not a bourbon which has which has rules with it not a rye not a weed not a corn not a barley but your whisk(e)y as in you have a mixture of those just like Bordeaux wine is a mixture of three grapes or maritime is from California. Some of the most expensive wines in the world are blends of different grapes. So two I think what you're going to see long term wine whisk(e)y is to said it's going to be these different grains put together in unique ways and different whiskeys that are going to be what the great whiskeys are going to be in long term long long term. There'll always be a place for the single things but you can just do more amazing things when you start to use different ingredients.

 

Tripp: [00:09:41] Ok very good. Well let's move to our craft cocktail recipe. The Boulevard cocktail. Now how does. Yeah I'm always curious to know how you come up with these cocktails to fit in with the theme of the episode that we're doing. So how did the bowl of cocktail fit into all the things we're talking about.

 

Doug: [00:10:03] Well this was interesting because as I was texting last night before we recorded I was looking through Dale the graphs classic book The craft of the cocktail and I and Dale Degroff was windows of the world New York.

 

Doug: [00:10:15] I had the blessings to spend an entire day with him on a project and we spent the morning tasting a collection of different whiskies that we had and messing with some things and then he took us on a tour of speakeasies in different places in New York and did his flaming orange peel which I'll talk about in a minute. And and he's a legend. He's he's a legend in the business. And as wonderful a person as you hope he would be. I've had an opportunity to meet many celebrities we won't talk about the bad ones but there are some like Charles Schulz of peanuts and Jim Henson of the Muppets and Dale de Graaf who are just genuinely they're kind of awesome people that you'd love to just hang out with forget the fact that they're famous they're just good people. And Dale is definitely one of those. And he cites this cocktail coming from a summer fonder of the New York Sun of 1935. So I think it was an article that he found that he cited and and it just struck me as something different. It was a little different. And I noticed that I could see the DNA in this and that this cocktail which I'd never had before I just made it literally last night. It has hints of an old fashioned cause of some orange that comes from Grand Manet and hints of a Manhattan from vermouth. So so that's pretty weird. Okay. I mean I'm taking two of the classic cocktails the old fashion in the Manhattan and kind of doing like a jazz riff on these things here you know putting them together and I thought jeez I wonder it just struck me as what the hell is this.

 

Doug: [00:11:51] I never heard of this thing from nineteen thirty five.

 

Doug: [00:11:55] And and I made it and I went Damn it's quite a it's quite a cocktail. So the way it works is this and again in the show notes we've got the details.

 

Doug: [00:12:06] Two ounces of rye whisk(e)y. I use our own wine whisk(e)y but you know get a good craft rye whisk(e)y.

 

Doug: [00:12:14] Half ounce of Grand Marnier which is an orange liqueur.

 

Doug: [00:12:19] Half ounce of dry vermouth  which I tend to use Dolin just because I like Dolin.

 

Doug: [00:12:25] And then off and you stir it with ice.

 

Doug: [00:12:27] And strain into a chilled glass.

 

Doug: [00:12:29] And then here's the deal graph twist on it which is you put a flamed orange peel. Now you can you can go on the internet and just search for it you can see some videos of it being done you can learn how to do it but I'll just explain it quickly what you do is you take the orange and you cut just a sliver of the peel off. I'm usually in a bit of an oblong oval shape then you hold it about four inches above the glass from the sides the short parts to it. So if it's an oval you're going to hold the sides to it with the skin side towards the drink the skin towards the drink then you light a lighter match torch whatever I like to use like a barbecue torch so keep my fingers away from it and get the fire going first and then you sort of squeeze the peel. And what happens is the oil shoot out and you get this flame and just a real quick flame and then you drop the peel into the glass. And so what it does is it gives it sort of there's a calm realisation that happens in the flame and a little tiny bit of smoke and it just puts a unique orange zest. If you would in the drink and it's quite nice quite nice actually.

 

Tripp: [00:13:50] Very good. So how does this fit into what we talked about.

 

Doug: [00:13:55] Well it's the same thing. It's the bringing together of the thinkers and the doers.

 

Doug: [00:14:02] In this case here I didn't see that did you.

 

Tripp: [00:14:07] Okay.

 

Doug: [00:14:07] I knew it is in there somewhere I just had I had a reaction and the Manhattan and it's bringing them together in this taste which is not an old fashion and it's not a Manhattan. It's like if if a Manhattan and an Old Fashion got together this is what they would give birth to bizarro.

 

Tripp: [00:14:28] AlRight. And what is your rye whisky again.

 

Doug: [00:14:34] Well that we've got. Yeah. We're about to introduce one which is called Deckhand the working man try and it's made with five Woods so it's a big brass.

 

Doug: [00:14:47] So it's again the story is that on the riverboats there were the deckhands and these were the ones that would work the the polls to help the boats when they were floating down where they were keel boats or flat boats. And these were the working men and and they would like to have that hardier drink you know when they had one day they wanted a full impact similar to the bar staff bar staff. Oftentimes the working men there they like the rise which tend to be a little higher and alcohol a little bit more spice a little bit more robustness. And so what we did here was we took the with with deckhand the working man's rye. What we've done is we've taken the rye and ninety five percent rye and then we finished it with five words we used American oak young American oak we used 200 year oak like we used and kill boat and paddle wheel. We used European Sherry oak and then we added some maple and some Apple wood. And so we take the five Woods. And interestingly on the back of the package we talk about Nashville 95 percent rye. But we also talk about wood Bill and talk about show the percentages of the five Woods that we're using in the finishing process and the net result is you get the gist. I mean the first thing somebody says when they taste they go Oh my God there's a lot going on there and it's just got a lot of complexity and robustness the kind of taste you would get from a much older bigger whisk(e)y. That was maybe bottled at even a higher proof barrel proof much bigger taste. And so it makes spectacular whisk(e)y forward cocktails and in amongst the you know Rye is whisk(e)y as IPA is to be here. You know it's that more intense than you either love it or you don't. But in our case here we've taken it way up over the top.

 

Doug: [00:16:51] There's other ryes that you get out there. I just happens to have much more complexity and much more and it just celebrates the working man who made the boats go before there were motors and paddle wheels. There were these guys with polls helping push the boat off the shore when it got caught up in and making it go OK.

 

Doug: [00:17:11] And and did you say Deckhand is available some places yet. Or is this process.

 

Doug: [00:17:17] Available where we're very close.

 

Doug: [00:17:18] So sometimes it'll be available at the distillery and and then we'll decide where to go our products are really made as demonstrations because we were partnering with distilleries around the world who we we use these as inspiration to show them how to create their own business their own brands. So these are really sort of if you were prototypes to show them you know as we're doing. But our business is helping other whisk(e)y makers or wannabe whisk(e)y makers make more money.

 

Tripp: [00:17:49] Yeah well that makes sense.

 

Doug: [00:17:51] And we also do it ourselves. Yeah. Because otherwise you shouldn't listen to me helping you.

 

Tripp: [00:17:58] You better come up with your own damn it. So.

 

Tripp: [00:18:02] So the Deckhand the price range who will be that thirty five dollar price that usually I end up at thirty nine rise more.

 

Doug: [00:18:11] So you've got to try to stay to thirty five. But I might be thirty seven to thirty nine. I've got a. And we're working the math to see if we get some efficiencies but it's at it's at a higher percent alcohol usually 46 48 percent alcohol instead of 40 year 45. So that costs us more money in tax and the rest of that stuff. So I'd like to keep the 35 year low like the line to stay at thirty five but I got to look at the total math on it. It's not going over 40 I can tell you that their only is is do we have to push it up a little bit more to make the math work.

 

Tripp: [00:18:49] Okay. All right. Very good. Another interesting episode. And know next time we didn't bring our time to do it this time but we do need to get an update on your distillery. So we'll do that when we kick off the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy the next episode.

 

Doug: [00:19:11] Well I'll be perfect because that should be just before the opening of the distillery. So we're very very close and I think the next step so we'll be airing just before the distillery opening.

 

Tripp: [00:19:25] Very good. All right. Thank you Don. The expansion of the distillery. Yeah. OK.

 

Tripp: [00:19:39] Have you ever thought about owning your own craft whisk(e)y business. Well subscribe to the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy because in the early 2019

 

Tripp: [00:19:49] We'll be offering opportunities to start your own business whether you are an aspiring entrepreneur curious about innovation or just like a good story. The Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcast will take you behind the scenes to learn the good the bad and the ugly about what it takes to create whisk(e)y from the craft space. Which is growing at a crazy rate. Lessons learned can be applied. Broadly.