November 26, 2025

Third party lawsuits and more with Andy Ellsmore from Stormwater Pro

57 minutes

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Time Stamps

00:01 Ty introduces Andy and his background in geology, hydrology, and stormwater compliance.

01:50 Andy describes his early career in soil and groundwater remediation and the path that led him into stormwater.

04:49 Andy explains why stormwater work is meaningful for him and how he helps facilities navigate regulatory complexity.

09:04 Third party lawsuits and the emotional and financial burden they place on businesses.

10:56 Which sectors are affected most: primarily industrial facilities in California.

14:15 Breakdown of the Clean Water Act, benchmark levels, and how ambiguous standards create vulnerability.

20:57 Discussion of outdated benchmark levels from a 1992 study.

27:57 Is this only a California issue? Why California sees the vast majority of lawsuits.

30:14 How to prepare clients, documentation, training, and meeting the permit to strengthen negotiation positions.

34:09 A case involving a backyard t-shirt maker and how even tiny businesses can be pulled into the permit.

37:05 The only time Andy has seen a lawsuit go away: a massive corporation threatened to fight back in court.

43:46 Guidance for consultants: contracts, communication, clear roles, and professional protections.

55:00 Closing remarks and encouragement for professionals to join the conversation.

Quotes

Andy Ellsmore

“It is a communal and societal challenge that we have. It involves a lot of different players with a lot of different perspectives.”

“The ambiguity in the Clean Water Act is really where a lot of this comes from.”

“There is no protection for a permittee. You could be sued every other day or twice a day by different groups.”

“Most clients want to be in compliance. Everybody cares about water quality.”

“You are putting a large target on your back by complying with the stormwater rules.”

In this episode of the Stormwater World Podcast, Ty Garmon talks with licensed professional geologist Andy Ellsmore about the complex world of stormwater compliance and the growing impact of third party lawsuits on industrial facilities, particularly in California. Andy explains how ambiguous Clean Water Act standards, outdated benchmark levels, and limited regulatory enforcement create an environment where nonprofits fill the enforcement gap through 60 day notices and costly settlements. He shares real examples of businesses blindsided by litigation, the financial and emotional toll these actions create, and practical steps both facility owners and consultants can take to protect themselves. The conversation highlights the challenges facing stormwater professionals, the need for clearer regulatory guidance, and the importance of documentation, training, and maintaining clean facilities to reduce risk..

The views expressed are that of the individual and do not represent the opinions of any companies past, present or future.

Connect with Andy Ellsmore:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andy-ellsmore/

Email: [email protected]

Website: https://www.stormwater.pro/ ; https://ellsmoreenv.com/

Connect with Ty Garmon, LEED AP:

Connect with Ty on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tygarmon/

Check out The Stormwater World Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9hVXVJ5oXplf_V9XOPpR6A

Podcast Website: https://stormwaterworld.com

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By Ty Garmon