I had some time off during Christmas, and the holidays, and the New Year, and stuff. My family went to California, spent some time in remote desert places, and some dive bars. My parents took the kids for a few days, and my wife and I went and [00:00:30] drove back roads around some of the areas where I grew up in rural Southern California. The deserts and the back roads of that area. I had a lot of fun. 

When I got back, I had a couple days in the office where it was just me working. I think some other people were working as well, but we didn't have any meetings scheduled. [00:01:00] Man, I spent like a half a day ... I even spent a whole day on one of those "days off" just playing with software. Going through my computer, creating shortcuts, optimizing my environment, and I really enjoyed it. It really reminded me of when I was [00:01:30] younger, before the internet was a thing really in a big way, dialing into bulletin board services. I even created a bulletin board service with a friend. Downloading shareware. Playing with different types of utility apps for the computer. 

I started downloading apps from the Mac App Store, and some of them are really good. [00:02:00] There's a program called Be Focused Pro which I was messing with. There's an app for ... I never thought I'd use this kind of thing, but I'm using it. There's an app for tracking your water consumption, and it syncs across all your devices. 

I just had fun playing with software. And I realized, at the end of the day, I'm no longer a kid, but I think in my heart, or whatever, [00:02:30] spiritual, I'm just a kid that likes playing with computers and software. I think that's why I got into product in the first place. That's why I learned to develop, to write code, in the first place. It's not because I'm really in love with the hardcore aspects of software engineering, and infrastructure, and architecture, and all that, although, I'm intellectually [00:03:00] interested in that stuff. But, at the end of the day, I really, really, really love product. It delights me to no end. I love outdoors, and I love hiking and camping, but the part of me that's indoors, just loves just crewing around with software and seeing how different designers and developers solve different UX problems. 

I remember [00:03:30] at my last company, which is still going strong, but I'm no longer there, lead pages. I remember hiring, or interviewing, people for product rolls, and one of my favorite questions to ask them was, "What are some of your favorite apps? What's some software that you just really love playing with?" These were career product people in software, and I was dumbfounded, I was absolutely dumbfounded, [00:04:00] by the number of people that couldn't answer that question. I would often hear that they liked the Mac OS, or super obvious stuff. They liked Google Docs. 

It's just whatever they used at work. It was nothing beyond that. Slack. But often it would be hard for them to even come up with those. The question was, "What's software that really delights you? That you're really getting into these days?" [00:04:30] And almost no one interviewing for that role, could say anything other than they think their phone is well designed, or they like Google Docs, they like Slack. 

Really? You like Slack? Okay. 

I wasn't looking for a replica of me, but I was looking for someone who had this intellectual curiosity around [00:05:00] programs, and software, and how products should be done. They'd make reference to Product Time, sometimes. They'd be like, "Oh, I really like browsing Product Time." I'd be like, "Oh, reallY? What's something that really sticks out on Product Time that you enjoyed playing with?" And they'd be like, "I can't remember. I have a list somewhere." Okay. 

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