Anita and I stay light and fluffy for our second conversation. We discuss swimming alongside giant sharks, battling with digital arseholes, and we ask the question – are people the mere playthings of enormous super organisms? Show Notes

• With my daughter at a pro shark rally (you can see us in the middle of this pic with her home-made banner SAVE THE SHARK, STOP THE CULL)
• Divers swim with a big beautiful shark off Hawaii
• A creative and admirable approach to helping sharks and people
• Anita's popular response to the criticism she received from vegans
• That book – The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition into the Forces of History
• Anita on Facebook
• Anita on Instagram
• Anita's eBooks – Plastic Girl and Is This Me?

And because we make mistakes

• At 40:15, when Anita referenced the Bondi riots, she meant to say Cronulla riots.