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Top-Down vs Bottom-Up: Two Transformation Methods, Same Result
Episode Show Notes: The Great Transformation Showdown - Top Down vs Bottom Up
Guest: Glenn Marshall, Creator of Next Level Co-Creation
Host: Kumar Dattatreyan
Episode Date:
Duration: ~ 39 minutes
Watch on YouTube
Why You Need to Listen Right Now
Ever been part of a transformation that felt like it was happening TO you instead of WITH you?
Glenn Marshall and Kumar just discovered something incredible: they've both created transformation methods that seem completely opposite—but they end up in exactly the same place.
Here's the thing: most transformations fail because they try to change everything at once. Glenn starts with whoever has energy and budget. Kumar starts with the C-suite. Both get results that will blow your mind.
The Big Aha Moments
🎯 The Live Lightbulb Moment
Halfway through, Kumar realizes: "Wait, we've been thinking about these as completely different approaches, but they're actually two sides of the same coin." You can literally hear the breakthrough.
💪 The Steel Thread Secret
Start with one thin wire, keep wrapping until it's strong enough to handle anything. That's exactly how sustainable change works.
🏥 The Buurtzorg Revolution
Dutch nursing company threw out traditional management. Created autonomous 12-person teams. Result? Better care, happier nurses, lower costs. They now dominate Dutch community nursing.
📈 The 33% Growth Secret
Kumar's client grew EBITDA by 33% every year for three years using the top-down approach.
Best Quote of the Episode
"If you try and ram too much food down somebody's throat, they will choke. So just slow down and meet them where they are." - Glenn Marshall
The Two Methods
Kumar's Disruptor Method (Top-Down): Start with C-level (or VP, or Product Line), build alignment, create a steel thread down
Glenn's Next Level Co-Creation (Bottom-Up): Start anywhere, prove in 2-week cycles, expand 1→2→4→8 teams
Plot twist: They suggest you might need both.
Why This Matters to You
Tired of transformation theater? Both focus on "proof over persuasion." No more selling change—just show it works, one small step at a time.
Connect with the Guests
Glenn Marshall: Next Level Co-Creation | https://www.linkedin.com/company/next-level-co-creation-inc/
Kumar Dattatreyan: The Disruptor Method | Take the quiz: Are you a disruptor or getting disrupted?
Listen & Subscribe
🎧 Find us: Search "Meridian Point" on any podcast app
📺 Watch: YouTube - Meridian Point Channel
P.S. If you've ever been frustrated by failed transformations, you need to hear Kumar's live realization about why both approaches work.
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By Agile Meridian
5
11 ratings
Episode Show Notes: The Great Transformation Showdown - Top Down vs Bottom Up
Guest: Glenn Marshall, Creator of Next Level Co-Creation
Host: Kumar Dattatreyan
Episode Date:
Duration: ~ 39 minutes
Watch on YouTube
Why You Need to Listen Right Now
Ever been part of a transformation that felt like it was happening TO you instead of WITH you?
Glenn Marshall and Kumar just discovered something incredible: they've both created transformation methods that seem completely opposite—but they end up in exactly the same place.
Here's the thing: most transformations fail because they try to change everything at once. Glenn starts with whoever has energy and budget. Kumar starts with the C-suite. Both get results that will blow your mind.
The Big Aha Moments
🎯 The Live Lightbulb Moment
Halfway through, Kumar realizes: "Wait, we've been thinking about these as completely different approaches, but they're actually two sides of the same coin." You can literally hear the breakthrough.
💪 The Steel Thread Secret
Start with one thin wire, keep wrapping until it's strong enough to handle anything. That's exactly how sustainable change works.
🏥 The Buurtzorg Revolution
Dutch nursing company threw out traditional management. Created autonomous 12-person teams. Result? Better care, happier nurses, lower costs. They now dominate Dutch community nursing.
📈 The 33% Growth Secret
Kumar's client grew EBITDA by 33% every year for three years using the top-down approach.
Best Quote of the Episode
"If you try and ram too much food down somebody's throat, they will choke. So just slow down and meet them where they are." - Glenn Marshall
The Two Methods
Kumar's Disruptor Method (Top-Down): Start with C-level (or VP, or Product Line), build alignment, create a steel thread down
Glenn's Next Level Co-Creation (Bottom-Up): Start anywhere, prove in 2-week cycles, expand 1→2→4→8 teams
Plot twist: They suggest you might need both.
Why This Matters to You
Tired of transformation theater? Both focus on "proof over persuasion." No more selling change—just show it works, one small step at a time.
Connect with the Guests
Glenn Marshall: Next Level Co-Creation | https://www.linkedin.com/company/next-level-co-creation-inc/
Kumar Dattatreyan: The Disruptor Method | Take the quiz: Are you a disruptor or getting disrupted?
Listen & Subscribe
🎧 Find us: Search "Meridian Point" on any podcast app
📺 Watch: YouTube - Meridian Point Channel
P.S. If you've ever been frustrated by failed transformations, you need to hear Kumar's live realization about why both approaches work.