The idea of talking to someone who's caused us immense pain is always hard, and sometimes impossible, to imagine. But people like Marina Cantacuzino and Jo Berry are proving that well-handled conversations can lead to not just to reconciliation, but to transformation. In this episode we ask them about their approach.

Marina is the founder of The Forgiveness Project, which gives a voice to survivors and perpetrators of crime and conflict who have rebuilt their lives following hurt and trauma. Jo is best known for her work on reconciliation with Pat Magee, the former IRA member who in 1984 planted the bomb at the Grand Hotel in Brighton that killed her father, Sir Anthony Berry MP.