Bo and Ben discuss Trump for over two hours. In the wake of the Capitol riot, they reflect upon his influence on politics over the last four years. Is he a symptom of an underlying disease? A cause? Or both? They agree that he confirms the adage that character is destiny and also the hypothesis that character is an important trait to consider when electing a POTUS: His character, manifestly flawed, lead almost inexorably to this moment. Those Republicans who contended that this was a surprise willingly blinded themselves to the dangers he posed. This was not only predictable, but it was also predicted by many observers.

The Trump phenomenon, nevertheless, is important to understand because he came to represent the legitimate interests of many aggrieved people. And those people aren’t going away. The important thing is to assimilate them into a more responsible populist movement, a movement with less dependence on wild conspiracy theories and more respect for institutions.

Bo and Ben both agree that permanently banning Trump from twitter, although understandable, was wrong and should worry us. They also agree that Biden and Harris’s response to the deplorable riot was disappointing and will likely only stoke the cinders of partisan division in this country. Although there’s not much to be hopeful about right now, it is possible that a responsible figure will emerge, a Marco Rubio or even a Tom Cotton, who channels the frustrations that gave rise to populist in a more praiseworthy direction.