Holger is one of the leading industry analysts (at Constellation Research) and former product leader. In this episode, Holger and Thomas talk about the dynamics in enterprise software.  We dig into history and the current state of product management, the shift and limits of more analytical PM, the growth of DIY (low code no code) tools, and the imbalances between tech vision and business process. We also talk Tour De France. And Holger gives some blunt advice on working with Analysts.   Warning: Holger thinks and talks fast.