Two Hypnotherapists Talking...

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk

(0:00) Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia here in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and (0:22) specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist. (0:30) We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) Hi, nice to see you again. Everybody, everybody who's listening to us knows we talk before we (0:44) hit press play.Anyway, what do you want to talk about today? We're regrouping our (0:50) respective practices. Yeah, I think I think we should talk about the group work that we can (0:56) do as hypnotherapists, but also how we can get involved with with different groups as well. I (1:02) think that'd be very interesting, won't it? Okay, I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.So why (1:07) don't you start with that one? Yeah, so I am a member of a big group, which you were a member (1:14) of at one point called the Hypnosis Growth Club. I was just thinking that when we do group work, (1:22) whether it's us that facilitate it, or we join in with group work, how, how does it change the (1:29) way we look at things? I've done quite a lot of work with Sheila over the over the past few years, (1:34) well, quite quite a number of years, but really intensely over the past few weeks. And it's really (1:40) made me sit up and feel that I'm more accountable for my actions.And I have got more of a focused (1:49) idea of where I'm going, even though I think some of that is some of that is because you know Sheila (1:55) and you trust you. Usually these those things come in a nice shiny wrapper and you're invited (2:01) to go to this for x off or whatever you don't know you you've known her now we've both known her now (2:06) for years so we have yeah and she's got a real business and she really reaches out to new (2:12) new investors to help them get started so how much of it is that do you think (2:19) I think there's a there's a massive trust element is in it isn't there because I trust Sheila I know (2:27) that Sheila is not just handing out information to a group or a one-to-one to help our businesses (2:36) she is genuinely walking that walk and talking that talk she's doing exactly what she's helping (2:43) us to do right yeah so this so yes and I think that's where it possibly does help also talking (2:52) about what we were talking about before we came before I press record the experiences that we (3:00) often come across of people trying to sell us earning money or you know so many people on (3:07) social media you know just give me all of your money by next week you'll have much more exactly (3:15) but looking back though does it is it because we don't know them or is it because we're not quite (3:21) sure of whether they're actually telling us the truth because we don't know them because you (3:26) don't know you can't know it and some of it is the one that you and I were chatting about before (3:31) I think there's some of it it's just they believe the hype that you've got to ask for the impossible (3:36) you know it's I think it's very difficult to do business with somebody you you haven't spent more (3:42) than 10 minutes talking to that's just something if you know what it is you're buying that's (3:47) different you can evaluate that as an isolated thing but if there's a certain amount of faith (3:52) involved with let me improve my business let me make more money well exactly exactly because I did (3:58) I did share it my experience which I'll share for the for our audience here I was approached by (4:05) somebody who promised that he could treble what I earn every single month within 90 days for (4:13) five thousand pounds or he discounted it to three and a half thousand pounds (4:20) was that because you're part of the group no no not not part of any group whatsoever (4:25) I don't know him I have never heard of him I've never even seen him on social media or anything (4:30) like that but he sent me an email and I was just a little bit nosy and I thought you know what let's (4:36) just see what this guy's got to offer anyway he discounted it down to three and a half thousand (4:41) pounds fifteen hundred so one thousand five hundred up front and then a thousand pounds in a month (4:47) and then the thousand pounds the next month and he said he could guarantee that I would triple (4:55) my income what um absolutely he gave it was it if you don't triple I'll give you the money (5:02) or your money back or no there was no guarantees apart from his word he gave me a quick snapshot (5:11) of somebody that he had tripled or quadrupled their followers on social media but there wasn't (5:19) enough information for me to thought think you know what I'll write that down and I'll go looking (5:25) because it was just flashing very very quickly so that I I didn't really see so what I did is (5:32) because I don't like to say no I said I said let me sleep on it let me speak to my husband (5:39) because he's got a lot to do with my financial situation yeah and I'll get back to you the next (5:46) day so we scheduled a call for the next day and I went on the call I didn't discuss it with my (5:53) husband because I wasn't going to go ahead because I'm not going to hand out all of that money to (5:58) somebody who I don't know and I there was nothing he didn't give me anything and didn't come with a (6:04) recommendation of somebody no no recommendation of anybody he said he mentioned one hypnotherapist (6:11) name when he said um did you study with you know such and such a person and I said no I didn't (6:18) told him who I studied with he'd never heard of them and then when I said who did you study with (6:24) he didn't answer the question exactly so all of this was going on in my head so I thought you (6:32) know what I'm going to go back on the call tomorrow so I did and and I said well I'll be perfectly (6:38) honest with you I said I've spoken to my husband I said and I said and he's agreed it's really (6:44) a no-no you know I said we can't afford to take that risk this is our money you know my husband's (6:50) retired um and his suggestion his recommendation was that I go and get hypnosis with a reputable (7:00) hypnotherapist because I like him he never offered that he didn't that because I don't believe (7:10) paying money to actually double treble whatever so I said yes I do believe I said I believe in (7:17) money I said I work for money you know um but he wouldn't have it at all he also suggested that (7:24) my husband has hypnotherapy with a reputable hypnotherapist because my husband needs to be (7:31) more supportive and more believing in what his wife can do so and this guy you said he's in his (7:39) 30s it's late 20s I'm not very good at ages because I still think I'm in my 20s yeah so (7:47) he yeah he's probably about late 20s early 30s I've never seen I've never heard of him before (7:53) so he's not as if he goes to any of the conventions or he you know he's well known (8:00) on the circuit you know how you get a lot of the hypnotherapists that offer these kind of programs (8:06) I've never heard of him before and when I mentioned him to a few people they've never heard of him (8:12) either and he's a Brit yes yes he's from down south somewhere yeah I'm from down south somewhere (8:20) off in Salisbury that's about as south as you can get with three miles of Southampton you jump off (8:25) but if you think about it like we're quite savvy we know you know to be very very careful (8:33) and is it because we're a lot older now a wiser or is it because you know like we (8:40) we do our own where the money is a finite thing yeah yeah I worry about young hypnotherapists or (8:48) new hypnotherapists that are coming through that really want to you know do all of this and then (8:54) they get embroiled with people who promise them the world and then if it weren't it wouldn't work (8:59) what do they do then they can't ask for the money back can they it's unfortunate it's a worrying time (9:04) it really is a worrying time but what it's made me think about I'll be perfectly honest with you (9:10) Denise what it's made me think about is that as therapists what we do when we're first starting (9:15) off is we collect qualifications don't we we go on this course we go on that course because we think (9:22) oh this is going to get me somewhere we don't need to collect qualifications no but I do think exposure (9:29) to other kinds of hypnosis is really useful oh yes yes definitely definitely and often usually we've (9:37) I mean I've gone to courses with Mike Thingy up in Canada I'm so bad with names Justin Mike (9:44) and and Justin Thingy in trance that's the one yeah and um who else yeah those are that's it those (9:54) are people who are established did very well establishing their business but then establish (9:59) themselves as teachers yes do all the correct the the rounds of the conferences and actually (10:07) will take a phone call with a new inexperienced hypnotist and not charge him an arm and a leg (10:12) for the privilege which is the same as same as Sheila Sheila Granger we know Sheila Granger we (10:18) we know her very well we've worked for years with her and I met her first through trying to think it (10:24) was one of the European conferences was right before the pandemic yeah but we we k

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk

Sheila Granger an internationally renowned professional clinical hypnotherapist and trainer.  [email protected]   www.sheilagranger.com                                                         

Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and (0:22) specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor (0:26) and consultant hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. Anyway, there we go. (0:40) Hello and welcome back.So we're on day four today and we've got a lovely special guest. (0:47) So I'm just going to introduce our guest and then we can have a chat, can't we? (0:53) We have the amazing Sheila Granger. So anybody who is anything hypnosis will know of Sheila (1:02) Granger.Sheila is a UK clinical hypnotherapist and Sheila's mission is to educate, motivate, (1:10) help and inspire other practitioners to achieve more than they thought possible. (1:15) Most known for the virtual gastric band weight loss protocol that's helped thousands of hypnosis (1:23) practitioners across the globe launch and grow their own practices. Sheila has taken hypnosis (1:30) into almost all walks of life from working with the homeless through to hospitals, schools (1:36) and businesses.She was IMDHA hypnotist. You'll have to explain what that is in a minute, Sheila. (1:44) Hypnotist of the Year in 2019 and her own business won the National UK Business of the Year in 2021.(1:54) A multi bestselling author on Amazon, Sheila constantly test the boundaries of what is (2:01) possible with hypnosis and a hypnosis business and has enabled others to help over 140,000 (2:12) clients with hypnosis. She's ego free with a big dollop of can-do attitude. Welcome Sheila.(2:20) And we know you, we know you personally anyway, don't we? We know how hard you work and how (2:25) you've helped me, you've helped Denise and you've helped quite a lot of our guests that (2:31) I've been on over the past few seasons as well. So welcome. Oh, well, that's nice to hear.And (2:38) IMDHA is the International Medical and Dental Hypnosis Association that is based in the USA (2:47) based. And I should update my bio really because that was 2019, but I'll lose track of the years, (2:56) 2024 or 2025 it might have been. They awarded me the Hypnosis Educator of the Year.(3:05) Oh, amazing. Very nice. And well-deserved, well-deserved as well, because you do, (3:14) you are such an inspiration to us all.So I've just had the pleasure of spending the weekend (3:19) with you as part of the hypnosis group. And it was, again, an amazing weekend where you find (3:28) the energy and the time to put all of this together that you do is beyond me, absolutely (3:34) beyond me. Well, life has been made a little bit easy with AI on putting things together.(3:44) Yeah. But yeah, there's still a lot of human side that we need to put into things, you know. (3:50) Yeah.But yeah, we've discussed this before, though, haven't we, on here? And I know I've (3:58) had a chat with you, Sheila, about it. But AI is only as good as the information that you're giving (4:03) it. So if you don't give it enough information, then it probably will come back with half a truth, (4:09) really.Yeah, completely. Yeah, completely. And yeah, I think, you know, I mean, it's the biggest (4:16) pivot in marketing in the last 25 years to the way things are going.But, you know, the human (4:24) element is more important than ever. And, you know, people want human connection, which is why, (4:32) you know, our industry and hypnosis is only going to grow because of the human element that AI (4:40) cannot do. And so, yeah, it can help us.And, you know, so many people are now, you know, it's (4:48) being used as a search facility. It's not just somebody asking it to produce things. You know, (4:54) a lot of people now are using it as a search facility.You know, who would you recommend for? (5:00) And so as hypnotherapists, we have got to keep on top of that kind of thing, because (5:05) although none of us really want to be marketers, you know, we just want to help people. (5:10) But our businesses have to be marketed. So, yeah.(5:14) Yeah. But we have to be findable for people. They have to know what it is that we can do, (5:21) how it is that we can help.And sometimes I always say, you know, if you take the word hypnosis, (5:28) which is I think probably, looking back, it's how I've managed to get into so many places, (5:33) you know, be it medical or businesses or whatever, because I, in a way, take the word (5:38) hypnosis away from it, which can conjure up all sorts of things. And funnily enough, (5:45) I've just been interviewing some members of the public. I've got to release some videos to what (5:49) they think hypnosis is, isn't, how they would find somebody, etc.And it's some great learnings (5:54) for everybody. But, you know, we have got to be, you know, human. Is this somebody that I think I (6:02) can work with? And that's why all of us offer at first call, you know, a free call to see whether (6:09) we, for both sides of the argument, whether we think we can work with that person.(6:16) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.But if you take the word hypnosis away from it, it's really just about (6:21) how people think, which means that it is, is it applicable in any area of life? (6:27) Mm hmm. So there is a lot of, especially on social media, you see a lot of hypnotherapists (6:35) or hypnosis that are really, they don't like AI. And I, some of them are actually quite worried (6:41) that it's going to take over our jobs or, you know, it's going to replace us.I don't think (6:47) it will do. Don't you remember before COVID, how many people were worried about people who were (6:52) doing hypnosis online? Yeah. And they're just about everybody.Yeah. And I was, I was one, (6:57) I was very sceptical about doing hypnosis online because it wasn't something that I was trained to (7:02) do. And I was quite comfortable seeing people face to face.And, but with lockdown, we had no (7:10) choice. Did, did we? Yeah. And now look, you've now got people in England and Australia.You (7:16) don't, you won't stop. You just stop by their clock. Yeah.But also there is a lot of hypnotists (7:22) on social media that really, they really don't like AI. They really don't like it at all. And (7:29) it's not going to replace us, is it? Because like what Sheila's just said, it's all about that human (7:34) connection, isn't it? AI's got no emotions, has it? So we can put a little bit of emotion in, (7:41) if we put that emotion in.It's the right place. It's not going to act in that way, is it? It's (7:46) not going to be empathetic, is it? So. No.And I think anything that can make our job as (7:53) hypnotherapist easier in terms of. It does a lot of the, it does a huge amount of the backend stuff (8:01) that none of us were trained to do. That wasn't the path we had before.And it sort of forced (8:06) you when you're first starting out because you don't have enough money in the bank to hire a (8:11) bunch of people to do that stuff. So, you know, kind of, yeah, like kind of design work and (8:19) putting ideas together, you know, it can, you know, churn stuff out at a vast rate of knots. (8:26) So it can take that element of time that we would have to put into things away from it.But (8:31) the important element, which I guess some people are missing, is they're not then putting a human (8:37) into that. And so, you know, you'll know yourself, you know, if you see, I mean, it's even (8:45) being flagged on social media now if there's an AI generated element to it. And, you know, sometimes (8:51) now if you see AI generated, you don't even read the posts.And the posts might actually be really (8:57) good, but the flagging the AI image, you know, it can create some beautiful images and very, (9:02) very quickly. But we've just got to make sure that, you know, we put the human element in. (9:08) So the way that Les is doing, you know, videos all the time.And I know it's something that, (9:14) you know, we don't like doing. None of us wants to do videos, really. You know, somebody could just, (9:21) well, we can clone ourselves with AI, of course.But, you know, people want to see who is this (9:27) person I am working with. You know, I've done these interviews in the public and I've said, (9:33) well, how would you choose one hypnotherapist over the other? You know, first of all, I went with, (9:39) you know, what would you search for? Would you search for the problem that you've got? Or would (9:43) you search for the hypnotherapist? And they said, well, they'd probably search, some said they would (9:48) search for the problem that they wanted solving. Other people said, well, you know, hypnotherapy for (9:54) that problem.And then when they get the details through, the first thing they're going to do (10:01) is go and have a look and see if this person's got any reviews. You know, have you worked with (10:08) somebody who has my problem? And so if anything, you know, it's kind of that side of things, (10:16) reviews, case studies, you know, all the things that make us trustworthy to somebody. (10:24) And the other side is, you know, one person said, no, we'll check

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk

Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and (0:22) specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor (0:26) and consultant hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) So season 10, episode 3 already. We're storming through this, aren't we, Denise? (0:43) We are indeed, my dear.Even taking vacations while we do it. (0:47) I was away last week. It was wonderful.(0:50) I'm away next weekend. I'm going up to Hull to see Sheila, Sheila Granger. (0:56) Yeah, very nice.We were hoping, we went last weekend just for a long weekend. (1:01) This weekend is our bank holiday, Monday. So Ben and Emily have moved to outside Cleveland, (1:09) and we expected to go see them.But I had a conversation with him at the end of his (1:14) first day at work, and he said it's going to take more while before he's really (1:18) organised. So that's fine. We will see him before the end of the month.(1:21) Because by October, the weather could be bad. They get a lot of snow. (1:25) Yeah, yeah.So what have you been up to? What have you been up to? (1:28) Well, just that. Just relaxing around, you know, watching horses and other wildlife, (1:34) a lot of deer around there. It was very nice.And, you know, just trying to get my business (1:40) moving along. I've been writing this month about medical and dental issues. (1:47) I think people tend to forget, and actually a lot of dentists (1:51) have been trained in hypnosis to some degree.And they're very open to it. So I'm going to start (1:57) reaching out to the dentists around here. Yeah, my dentist is quite open to it.I've (2:02) been for an emergency appointment this morning. So he's been very, very open to it. And he just (2:10) says, don't look into my eyes, you know, as a joke.But yeah, he's asked me to put some stuff (2:15) together. So I'm going to put some stuff together. It's more for the children.So yeah, that's very (2:21) helpful. We get children to not be afraid of the dentist. Yeah.You know, we had a lot of dental (2:26) problems later on. Well, yes. Yeah.I mean, I'm not very keen. I don't get excited thinking I'm (2:32) going to the dentist, but it doesn't bother me because he's a very, very good dentist and very (2:38) empathetic over, you know, needles and things like that. Yeah.And once they say, do you need (2:44) to take a beat? And that's usually all it is. You just kind of screw your courage to the sticking (2:50) post. Yeah.I think he's very good because he treats adults like he does the children. So he (2:58) actually, he actually puts like the numbing stuff on your gums before he gives you the (3:04) needle. And why not? He's so good.He is. He is. Yeah.But yeah, you're right. I think, I think (3:11) dentists and we've discussed it before, haven't we? About medical doctors and everything. They (3:16) should all have some kind of training in hypnosis.If not actually do it themselves, at least to know (3:23) enough about it to be able to use it. It is so frustrating that it's still all these hundreds (3:29) and thousands of years it's been around. So what do you plan on targeting like dentists in your (3:38) area too? Yeah, I will probably reach out to them because I can see I'm right next door.I don't (3:45) know how many we've got, but I think I can throw my stone at five different offices just in this (3:49) round here. So there's a lot. And we've certainly got lots of dentists and I'm very close to the (3:55) hospital.So I might put together a talk. Yeah, no, that'd be good that wouldn't it? That'd be (4:00) very, very good. Yeah.It's all about education, isn't it? And whilst I'm thinking, having this (4:06) brainstorm while we're talking, I think actually I could probably reach out because they do (4:11) adult education, if you will, you know, talk to the importance of the pap smear, (4:16) the importance of the, you know, that stuff. I'm just going to put in my leaflet together, (4:20) go in and have a chat with him and just see where that gets me. So we'll have to see, (4:26) even if it's just to come in and do a talk with the staff or I'm quite open to quite a lot of (4:33) things with him.So that's good. Yeah. Talking to the staff is nice also because you can also (4:38) remind them they themselves are patients at multiple countries and it can be really useful.(4:46) I have seen quite a few children who have had their parents pin them down where they've been (4:55) having inoculations or vaccinations or even having blood taken. And I just think that's (5:02) absolutely terrifying. When they're tiny and they're squirmy, even if they're not frightened, (5:07) you just wrap your arms around them.Of course you do. A bear hug, don't you? Yeah, a bear hug, (5:11) exactly. So long as that in itself, they can get used to, the doctor's going to give you a shot, (5:18) mummy's going to give you a hug, they should not be frightened when they get to.Yeah, (5:22) no, I've actually, yeah, I've actually seen children who have been terrified, (5:27) absolutely terrified of hospitals, of doctors, of nurses because of that experience that, (5:34) you know, they've had as regards to needles. Body autonomy. I mean, they're not the nicest (5:41) of things, are they? No, I mean, nobody would volunteer for them for fun, would they have? (5:46) No, I mean, well, I suppose I give blood, so I suppose I do really in a way, don't I? Yeah, (5:52) but it's, yeah, you've just got to, especially... And they're using a much bigger needle when (5:56) they're taking blood for that.Denise, it doesn't bother me at all, I watch them, (6:00) I actually watch them. Because it's in your gift, as it were, you are telling them you can have it. (6:06) I get in there, I get in the way, yeah.When I was doing my physio training, I went into (6:13) theatre where they were doing knee replacement, hip replacement, all kinds of things like that, (6:19) and I got, I actually got told off from the surgeon, because there's a square, isn't there, (6:26) in theatre, that you jumped over, and he was going, get back. So there was one particular one (6:35) that I saw, and it was a hip replacement, and he just threw me the head of the femur, (6:43) and I was just, I didn't want to give it back. Just to remind you.(6:48) It was, no, it was great, because, funnily enough, Denise, it was at the hospital, (6:54) a hospital called Wrightington Hospital, which is in the northwest of England, and that is where (7:00) Charlie did the first hip replacement procedure there. So what is, what's your big push in this, (7:08) this is, you've had your Labour Day weekend, you, it's, it's, it's the last quarter of the year, (7:14) what are you going to do with this last quarter of the year? Is Christmas a big push for you? (7:20) No, not really, it's quite quiet at Christmas, but then again, it starts picking up in January. (7:27) Yeah, I sit back at Christmas, really, and that's nice, that's really nice, but my big push at the (7:33) moment is, I've just rebranded, and it's not one size fits all, so it's, I determine what I need (7:40) to do with the child, and then put my recommendations, and it didn't really highlight (7:46) what I was doing as, you know, as a therapist, so that's what I've been doing.So I've actually got (7:52) four pillars to my, my work that I do, so I've just been looking at trademarking, (7:59) and it's an expensive occasion when you have to trademark something, isn't it? (8:04) Is that the little helpers thing? (8:06) No, no, that's what we've come away from, we've come away from that all together, (8:11) so it's, it's the four pillars to, you know, to what I do with the children, (8:17) and I've just had a look, I just googled it before to see how much it was, and (8:22) it's not that expensive, really, in the light of things, for what you get, but (8:27) it's between two and three hundred pounds, and it's, it takes between three and four months to do. (8:33) Yeah, I'll go find out how many other people have the same. (8:36) Yeah, well, I've had a look, yeah, I've had a look, and nobody's, nobody's got my name, (8:41) so I need to do it as soon as possible.(8:43) Yeah, quick, so you keep it that way. (8:45) Yeah, so that's what I've been doing, and then getting ready for the last quarter of the year, (8:50) really, preparing for the children going back to school. I've already had a few inquiries this week (8:55) already, and our children only went back this week, so I've got three new ones coming in to see (9:02) me, and this is only the first week, so fingers crossed, you know, it'll start getting busier.(9:10) Is the end of the actual year a big exam time for kids? (9:15) It is, depending on what year, so in junior school, you have what's called SATs, and that's (9:23) year six who sits SAT, and then when it goes to senior school, it's usually year 11 where (9:32) they start sitting their GCSEs or their O-levels, or year 10, they sit their what's called MOCs. (9:40) Do you have 13 years? (9:41) You have 12 years in school. (9:44) 11.(9:45) 11 is to get through to O-levels. (9:47) So you've got year one, two, three, four, five, six in primary school, as well as reception, (9:54) so you've got reception, they're the four-year-olds, and then you've got six years at primary school, (10:02

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk 

Melanie Davies Clinical Hypnotherapist & Stress Management Consultant                [email protected]  www.melaniedaviesmindsolutions.com

Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist (0:21) and specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant (0:28) hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.So let's get on with the episode. (0:38) Okay, so episode two of our 10th season, well my third, but your 10th season of Two (0:49) Hypnotherapists Talking. Wow, that's just amazing, isn't it? We have a lovely, lovely guest on today (0:57) and her name is Melanie Davis.And Melanie is an advanced skills practitioner in clinical (1:04) hypnotherapy, a trained blast trauma therapist and a sleep and stress consultant. (1:12) Melanie specializes in supporting people to better manage anxiety, sleep and stress. (1:19) Before becoming a therapist, Melanie spent more than three decades working in a high pressure, (1:28) high accountability, educational environments as a lead practitioner, a teacher, trainer, coach, (1:36) and mentor.And using this extensive experience helps Melanie to help other people to manage (1:47) pressure, rebuild confidence and develop sustainable strategies for their well-being. (1:53) So Melanie also is a seasoned presenter, having appeared on podcasts, on Cambridge radio, (2:01) and writes a regular column for the acclaimed Velvet magazine, where she shares practical (2:08) evidence-based well-being insights. So welcome.Wow, Melanie. (2:14) There's a lot of stuff there. When you get some downtime.(2:20) Well, yeah, it's a bit like that, isn't it? But I don't realize it until I hear it all put (2:26) together like that really. But I'm sure with both of you as well, that the path that leads you (2:32) to hypnotherapy goes along many other avenues and you gather many skills along the way and (2:38) that's just how mine have come, actually. Yeah.Well, before we get too far into it, (2:43) most people that listen to this are probably hypnotists. I'm trained in EMDR and I know (2:49) that Les is. In what way does the BLAST program differ from EMDR? Excuse me, I'll be perfectly (2:54) honest.I haven't used it that much. I used it for, I saw a couple of police men and ladies. (3:02) So I think the primarily the primary difference is that EMDR is much more focused on working with (3:08) the conscious mind and BLAST is more focused on working with the unconscious mind.And the person (3:15) who developed BLAST, Nick Davies, who I have to say is not a relation of mine, although we share (3:20) the same surname, and he was working with clients. He's a hypnotherapist and a psychotherapist. So (3:28) obviously EMDR often comes through the psychotherapy field.And he found that when he (3:34) was working with some of his clients, the process was quite slow and difficult for them. And although (3:40) it's evidence-based and it shows that it does help with PTSD and trauma, the actual process (3:46) itself for some people can be quite rigid and it can sort of sit them in that trauma space (3:55) for a longer time than is desirable. And I think from listening to Nick through the training that (4:03) I've done, he wanted to find a kinder, gentler, faster way.So he drew upon all of the evidence (4:11) space around EMDR, the work of Francine Shapiro and that block around evidence-based. But then (4:20) he also looked at hypnotherapy, suggestion work, NLP, work of Richard Bandler, and did a number (4:28) of studies and developed the BLAST technique. So it still uses bilateral eye movement.That's what (4:35) it stands for, bilateral analysis and stimulation treatment. But there's a bit more scope in it to (4:43) adapt it specifically to the person that is in front of you. And I find it works really nicely (4:48) in programs of hypnotherapy.And I have to say, I've been quite astonished at some of the results (4:55) that I've got with it. It's one of those, if you don't see it yourself, you don't believe it. (5:00) I didn't train in EMDR, I trained in IEMT, which is integral eye movement therapy.And I'll be (5:08) perfectly honest, for severe trauma, otherwise I haven't used it. And maybe I'll have to get (5:15) dust my folder down and start having a look at it as well, because it is really good, isn't it? (5:20) And it's just another approach that we can use. Right.So what is the bulk of the people that (5:29) you see are trauma-related cases? It's interesting because they often don't come (5:37) and say, I want you to treat my trauma, but they come and say, I'm suffering from anxiety. (5:45) And it's got to the point where it's really ruining my ability to enjoy life or go out and (5:49) about. And that's usually how they present.But once we start going into the background, (5:56) there's often some trauma that's there. Although that isn't usually what they come in with. That's (6:01) just what we find.Yeah. No, they've probably had it since they were kids. And it's been just (6:05) sitting there.That is them. Yeah. And they don't realize that that's the lurking thing in the (6:13) that's, you know, having that subconscious impact on everything else that they do.(6:18) Yeah. Are your clients primarily funneled to you from other sorts of practitioners, (6:24) like doctors and dentists or psychologists? (6:30) No, I have a mix. I really have a mix.I wish I knew exactly where they just all came from, (6:35) because then I would put all my energy into just that moment. That would work. But I'm getting (6:40) more and more people coming to me because I've helped somebody that they know.I have had some (6:45) referrals from GPs because I I have done some work with GP practices. So I've moved in the (6:52) last 12 months. But in the place where I lived previously, I did some work with two local GP (6:58) surgeries.I did some workplace well-being stuff for the GPs and the nurses and the clinical teams. (7:05) And I did some stuff for their receptionist as well. You know, the front facing teams who are (7:11) not not necessarily clinicians themselves.And I think having gone in there and showed that group, (7:18) that sort of medical community, the benefits of hypnotherapy, and they felt it for themselves when (7:25) when they had people coming in and they could see quite clearly that somebody would benefit, (7:29) that they would would say, Melanie can, Melanie is someone who is trusted and she might be able (7:35) to help you. Yeah. Certainly in the US where things are even less time available.(7:44) I think you'd probably have to have several touch points with that practice for them (7:48) to remain top of mind. Because here I'll talk to doctors, I get three or four people and then (7:54) nothing for a year. And it's not that they're annoying.It's just there's so much. (7:59) On top of it. Yeah.Yeah. You also work. You also do some work with Maggie's Cancer Centre, (8:06) don't you? Tell us about that.Yeah. So I actually I actually made the connection there just through (8:13) going to ordinary business networking. So my largest big town is Cambridge.I used to live (8:19) in Newmarket and I've now moved across to a village on the outskirts of Huntingdon. So I've (8:23) gone from one side of Cambridge to another. And I met a lovely fundraising representative (8:30) from the Maggie's community at a couple of these network events that I was going to.And they're (8:35) obviously looking for businesses to give them financial support. Well, I'm just a small (8:40) sole trader. I didn't have the capacity to do that, but I did have a skill that I thought would (8:45) be helpful.And I was prepared to give some time. So I just built that conversation and I went in (8:54) and initially did a little taster session for the staff as a stress relief session because their (9:00) job is quite difficult and can be really emotional, you know, dealing with, you know, people on a (9:06) cancer journey all the time. And they loved it.Often it's because you have to change gears. (9:12) You're with somebody that's going through, you know, the worst day that family's had for a long (9:17) time. And then you've got to switch gears to somebody that's at the beginning of that journey.(9:21) Stay positive for everybody. Yeah. And when I, when I used to work in the hospice, when I first (9:27) got offered the job, it was through an agency.So I used to go in, sort things out and then leave (9:33) again and go somewhere else. And I thought, oh, do I really need, want to do this to work in a hospice? (9:39) But do you know what? It was one of the happiest, most peaceful, joyful place that I've ever worked (9:48) of the staff down to the patients down to, you know, the families that visit. And it was just (9:55) lovely.It was, I think they only had, I think at the time they only had seven or eight beds there. (10:01) And it was just an absolutely beautiful place to work. Really beautiful place to work.It just (10:07) shows how we think. Maggie's is a special place. Yeah.I can imagine. I can imagine. Yeah.And, (10:16) you know, so I go and I do every couple of months I go and I do a session for the staff (10:21) and then I do a session for Maggie's visitors. And so that can be somebody who's actually having (10:26) a cancer treatment themselves or a

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk 

(0:00) Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and (0:22) specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor (0:26) and consultant hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) Quite chilly. Oh, hello.(0:39) Bear's come to see us. I haven't seen Bear before. (0:43) Yeah, this is Bear.He's feeling quite lonely because my husband has been doing some work (0:48) outside in the garden, chopping some of the trees, you know, like down to a proper level. (0:53) And he doesn't like anything like that. So he's been mithering me all day.(0:59) So yeah, he's been following me around, hasn't he? He's a chicken. (1:03) I miss that word. Martin, he's just mithering.(1:08) Mithering, that's the northern word, isn't it? Mithering. (1:11) But we've got a nice big basket of grapes from our vine today. (1:19) Congratulations.(1:20) Very sweet. So I'm not a grape lover unless it's fermented, but (1:26) yeah, I shall be eating some later. (1:29) Do you do your own fermenting? (1:31) No, unfortunately not.I don't have the time. (1:35) I wish. I'd like to be able to do it one day.So maybe, maybe one day, but we'll see. (1:42) It's just more convenient to just run around. (1:45) Just go to the shop.(1:47) It's just pick one up from there, really, isn't it? (1:50) Yeah. (1:51) So we're on season 10 of Tumour Therapist Talking already. (1:57) And this, starting here in the middle of September, going to (2:02) just the first week of December, and then we'll be off until the new year.(2:05) Yeah, that'd be fantastic. But it's, yeah, we've got some nice, some really, really nice guests. (2:11) They're all nice, like you said, but we've got some really nice, interesting guests.(2:14) And hopefully our listeners will enjoy chatting and listening. (2:21) I think the most will be interested, when you think of a hypnotist, (2:24) you don't think of them in corporate life. (2:26) You don't.(2:27) We've got two people whose business are basically working with corporations. (2:32) But also, you don't think of the actual business behind it, do you? (2:37) When anybody's looking for a therapist or a hypnotherapist or anybody like that, (2:43) you're just going to Google or go with a recommendation. (2:47) And people don't realise the work that goes on behind the scenes.(2:51) There's more work behind the scenes than what there is, you know, when you're face to face. (2:55) As most of us finally realised when we graduated. (2:59) Yes, yeah.I was talking about this with Sheila Granger just a few days ago. (3:06) Who's a guest this season, correct? (3:08) Yeah. And you don't realise, do you? (3:12) When you're in that classroom, when you're studying to become a therapist, (3:17) you don't realise that it's afterwards, after you've qualified, (3:21) that you think, well, I'm a therapist.(3:23) I'm just supposed to sit in my therapy room and give my therapy out. (3:31) Yeah, but it's not like that, is it? (3:33) Because there's an awful lot that goes on behind the scenes. (3:38) That's the bit that if you don't get right, then... (3:41) First, you've got to figure out what it is, (3:43) and then you've got to figure out how to make it easier to do that stuff.(3:46) So all day today, and I know I'm a lot later than you are, (3:50) because you're lunchtime, aren't you? (3:51) We're almost like dinner time, late afternoon. (3:56) And all I've done all day is attend a few meetings online, (4:00) but also rejig my website, because I've had a rebrand a couple of weeks ago. (4:09) So everything needs rejigging, and more videos, (4:12) and it's those kind of things that people don't understand how much it takes.(4:19) Right. And how much it is when it's a single person running the show. (4:25) Because the big operations, obviously, they've got committees to do these things.(4:32) Exactly, but it's just me and you, yeah. (4:36) We have Sheila this time round? (4:38) Yes, yes. (4:40) Okay.So we've got Sheila, and we have two people who... (4:43) Who work in the corporate. (4:44) ...differently in corporations, yeah. (4:46) Yeah.So we're waiting, I'm waiting for whether I've been successful (4:52) to get into Hypnotic 2027 in Belgium. So yeah. (4:56) So you did, this is the one that's in Belgium, is the one you did this year? (5:00) Yeah, Hypnotic 2026 I did this year, so it'll be 2027 next year.Yeah, that was lovely. (5:06) And so while we're recording all of these, when we get towards the end of our episodes, (5:12) I'll actually be in London at the UK Hypnosis Convention, which will be really, really exciting. (5:21) So I might see if we can do some sort of live or... (5:25) That would be good.(5:26) Yeah, yeah. (5:27) But everybody in a room and pass the microphone. (5:30) Yeah, that would, I know that would be really, really nice.So I've already got a podcast (5:35) lined up, I think it's this Thursday, with one of the presenters there. So that'll be exciting as well. (5:44) Good.(5:45) You're mithering me today, aren't you, Bear? Bear really wants to come up and sit on my knee, (5:49) but if you sit on my knee, I won't be able to see you. So what's happening? (5:55) Much smaller than his name would imply. (5:57) Yeah, it's cheeky though.So what's happening with you at this moment in time? Because (6:03) you were having a rejig, weren't you, of your website? (6:06) Yeah, well, I've rejigged it. I'm probably going to do it again, because a lot, I mean, (6:11) I just moved it over to a different post. I think it's time.(6:16) That's with Melanie, isn't it? (6:18) Melanie's crowd, yeah. (6:19) Yeah, yeah, yeah. (6:20) So I've got that done, and I've also increased, and I've gone to 15 hours of assistance.(6:27) So I can use the VAs that they use, which is really nice, because all VAs are used to (6:32) dealing with hypnotists. (6:33) They are. (6:34) I've just seen the plant off your left shoulder.(6:37) You've just seen? (6:37) As you sit down. The plant that's immediately behind you on your left shoulder. (6:42) This one or that one? (6:43) That one.(6:44) This jade? (6:45) That looks like a jade plant. (6:47) It is. (6:48) Yeah.Oh, that's, I'm proud of myself. I can recognise it through a screen. (6:52) It is, and you know, do you know what? When I, oops, when I brought it here from my office, (7:01) it was half the size.As you can see, it's got some old... (7:04) Like sun. Every Chinese restaurant near us has an enormous one in their window. It's (7:11) absolutely massive.(7:12) You're supposed to put it in your, I think it's your southeast corner to bring in, (7:19) because they say it's a money plant, don't they? (7:22) But it's thriving there. I've got another one there that's about 10 years old as well, (7:27) and that's got one of those little red flowers on now, and it's never flowered. (7:32) Very good.(7:33) So it's obviously like being in here. (7:35) Yeah. So where is here? Are you in your office? (7:40) No, no.My office, as you can see, is behind me. (7:43) Yeah, I'm in my conservatory. At the moment, the signal in my therapy cabin isn't very (7:50) strong, so I can just about make out, you know, to do a two-minute video, and then I have to (7:59) come in here to edit it, because otherwise I lose it.(8:03) Oh, dear. (8:03) So I know, but we've got a massive booster to go in there, (8:08) so as soon as we can get somebody to do it, we'll... And then I can sit in there. (8:12) Yeah.Do whatever you need to do. (8:14) Yeah. Yeah.(8:15) Okay. So we've got these two people who deal with individuals, but primarily work through (8:22) corporations. Sheila, who has got so many strings to her bow, we have no idea what she's going to (8:28) talk about.(8:28) No, but whatever it is, it'll be really interesting, won't it? (8:32) Yeah. (8:32) And who else? You said Frederick. (8:34) And then we have a gentleman who's not confirmed yet, but I'm sure if I tell him we've already (8:41) spoke about him, he'll confirm.And he's a gentleman who does a lot to do with anxiety (8:47) and group work. He works predominantly online. Well, everything's online.And he's in Bonny, (8:55) Scotland, somewhere. He's lovely. (8:57) Oh, good.(8:57) So lovely gentleman, yeah. We might ask Sheila if she can do it, because I think over here, (9:03) especially in England, that's what we need. We need GPs to recognise us and everything.(9:10) But there's somebody who's doing a survey on social media at the moment, like a completely (9:16) anonymous survey that hopefully when they get all the information, they can put that forward to (9:22) wherever their sources are. It's just highlighting the fact that we are always, well, not always, (9:29) but predominantly, we are the last resort, aren't we? (9:33) Yeah. It would be nice to be a little higher up the chain.(9:35) It would. It would be very, very nice for us to do that. But it's just whether, (9:41) I've said this time and time again on our podcast, we just have to keep banging the (9:45) drum and keep getting people to realise.Because if you do, funnily enough, I was talking to (9:52) a gentleman that does a lot of search engine optimisers today. And I just happened to answer (10:00) the telephone. And it was a sales call.So I just got talking to him. And he said, (10:06) now, especially over in Br

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk 

Mark Wilson www.evolvemindshypnosis.com   www.solutions4therapists.com

(0:00) Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about (0:14) the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.(0:19) I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and specialist in working with children. (0:24) And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist. (0:30) We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) Welcome, Mark. It's lovely to see you.(0:38) Thank you. (0:39) Creative mentor who's based in the Algarve in Portugal. (0:44) Through Mark Wilson's studio, Mark helps creatives silence that inner critic (0:50) and move past the imposter syndrome that keeps so many of them stuck.(0:56) Mark spent 20 years as a professional photographer before giving himself permission to paint. (1:03) And he is co-founder with his lovely wife, Sue, of Evolve Minds Hypnosis Academy (1:09) and Solutions for Therapists, where he trains hypnotherapists and therapists online (1:15) across the UK, Europe and beyond. (1:20) Thank you very much.(1:20) It's always, it's always stunning, isn't it? (1:23) You hear the back stories to all the hypnotists we know, (1:26) that everybody comes from a completely different angle. (1:28) It's really fascinating. (1:30) And we all fit in the same thing.(1:33) And when it's about you, it always sounds like it's about somebody else as well. (1:37) It's like, well, who's that? (1:40) Well, I have a confession to make, Denise. (1:42) Mark was actually my tutor when I trained.(1:45) And he's now a really good friend along with his wife, Sue. (1:48) And we cross paths quite a lot, don't we? (1:52) So Mark, you have an academy yourself, you and your wife? (1:55) Yeah, I do. (1:56) Yeah, we've been doing training since 2014 with Evolve Minds Hypnosis Academy.(2:03) And we do a 10-month, 10-module training course in hypnotherapy. (2:09) Excellent. (2:10) I really don't like to meet people that say you can do it in two weeks.(2:12) They make me nervous. (2:15) So are they in person or is this long distance? (2:19) Well, this is the thing. (2:20) There's this sort of little bit of fusion going on now.(2:24) We were face-to-face. (2:25) And then that little incident happened in 2020. (2:29) Oh, the COVID thingy? (2:30) Yeah, that one.(2:31) And we had classes running at that time. (2:34) And it was a case of we can't let these students down. (2:38) We can't let them wait.(2:40) We can't wait this thing out. (2:41) We've got to carry on. (2:43) And we'd been wanting a way to actually go online for a while.(2:47) But it had to be the right way. (2:48) And what it did was it actually gave us the impetus and the push (2:52) to take the whole course online. (2:55) So we had several student classes at different points through the course.(3:00) And we managed to get them all finished within that year. (3:02) I think we lost about six weeks whilst we transitioned everything online. (3:07) Did a heck of a lot of recording of information.(3:11) But all the classes, they're all live. (3:14) In my mind, it's just like you drive into a venue (3:18) and you're sitting down together in a classroom. (3:21) We sit together.(3:22) You know, everybody congregates to work for their terminalism. (3:25) We sit down together and we have live training. (3:30) And that was the important thing.(3:31) It had to be live. (3:32) I didn't want people just looking at it down. (3:34) Do you hold them mostly in the weekends to make it easier for people? (3:38) Most of us are transitioning from some other job.(3:41) But I think that's changing. (3:44) The whole thing, people's attention spans are shorter. (3:48) People have more time poor now.(3:52) And so they're wanting this information in a slightly different way. (3:56) And I think that's something that we've got to start addressing and looking at. (4:00) We don't do the free weekend anymore.(4:03) But we do deliver the free module one. (4:06) And we do it by way of a two hour webinar (4:09) to see what people's interest is rather than a two day free weekend. (4:14) That was, I trained at Hypnosis Motivation Institute, (4:18) which has been going for over 50 years in California.(4:21) And that was, I did a distance. (4:23) Their first month of classes, there were four. (4:27) You could take just to see if you liked it, see how you feel.(4:30) You have to pass the test and we'll take you if you want to come. (4:33) But you know, you've got to do all of that. (4:35) By the second week, it was, okay, this is what I'm doing.(4:39) So I had taken it to add to coaching, a health coach. (4:44) Because I come from a medical background. (4:46) So it made sense to me.(4:48) And that was just another thing I sort of wanted to know more about most of my life, (4:53) but always assumed it would be really expensive to fund. (4:56) Because everybody I saw who was a hypnotist (4:59) was one of these people in cloaks on stage. (5:02) I'd never met a clinical hypnotist.(5:05) I knew it was used that way, but I'd never come across anybody. (5:08) I'm sorry, I had to tell the story. (5:10) So once you established yourself as an online business, how does it develop? (5:20) Well, again, out of that incident in 2020, (5:24) what we also looked and saw was that the continuation of training (5:29) after the training course itself needed to be addressed as well.(5:34) Sometimes with more specialist masterclasses, (5:36) Les has just taken a two-day masterclass for us through Solutions for Therapists. (5:43) And we offer our supervision. (5:45) So it might be a one-hour supervision evening, (5:48) or it might be a two-day masterclass working with children with Les, (5:52) or an EFT training course, different ones running at different times.(5:57) It's all about that continuity though, isn't it? (6:00) That support that you're not just having to attend Mark and Sue's course, (6:07) and then it's a case of, bye, bye now. (6:11) So it encourages students to communicate with other students like me, (6:19) encourages them to talk to Mark, to everybody really. (6:23) And having these supervisions and these CPD and masterclasses (6:28) really sort of solidifies that continuity.(6:33) And because you're still learning, aren't you? (6:35) I was on a course by the end. (6:37) Yeah, it's a lonely job as a therapist if you don't have other sort of groups (6:44) or touch points, if you like, or you don't surround yourself with people. (6:49) I think it's a tricky occupation to be in and stay safe, (6:55) if you're just working purely on your own.(6:57) It is, and also having that support is really good, isn't it? (7:03) So if you have any issues or you're stuck with something, (7:07) because we can't remember everything, can we? (7:10) And if you go on some of these groups on social media, (7:13) then you get trashed if you ask silly questions. (7:17) But to me, I always think there isn't such thing as a silly question, (7:21) because sometimes you can have a block and think, (7:23) I don't know what to do with this client, or I'm not sure if it's the right thing. (7:27) Whereas having a community where you can go and ask a question, (7:32) it just solidifies that support.(7:36) Yeah. (7:36) Very supportive. (7:37) Yeah, without feeling embarrassed about asking the question as well.(7:43) Yeah, definitely. (7:45) But you've done it with a twist now, haven't you, with your art? (7:50) So explain to us what you're doing. (7:53) Yeah, so when I left school, I wanted to be a photographer, (7:57) and I wanted to be a photographer, if I'm being down and honest about it, (8:00) because I couldn't draw and I couldn't paint.(8:03) I couldn't do any of that kind of artist stuff. (8:06) So you wanted to be a visual artist of some kind. (8:08) Yeah, yeah.(8:10) So when the careers teacher said, what do you want to do? (8:12) I said, I want to be a photographer, because I thought, (8:15) well, that's the nearest I can get, and I can take a picture. (8:18) Surely it's just like you just point the camera. (8:20) And I learned how, obviously, later there's a bit more to it, (8:22) but for 20 years, I was a photographer, and I loved that job.(8:27) I really did enjoy doing it. (8:30) We built a wonderful business, a different business. (8:32) We were traveling, we were sort of shooting in wonderful, amazing places.(8:37) And then I sort of got more involved with hypnotherapy, (8:40) and that sort of started to come in as well. (8:43) And then we moved out here to Portugal when Sue's mum died. (8:48) We sort of decided we'd have a bit of a life change.(8:50) We'd already been doing the therapy, (8:52) and it was a case of, well, we'll continue the therapy. (8:54) And then, again, just down to that event that happened, (8:59) it sort of gets you thinking. (9:00) So I think as you get older as well, you sort of start to think, (9:04) well, have I got things here that I really should be doing? (9:07) Is there stuff undone that you want to get done? (9:10) And it's, you know, we teach people, don't we, (9:13) that if one person can do something, anybody can learn how to do it.(9:17) And that's been my favorite thing, (9:19) because I didn't leave school with a great deal, (9:22) so other than that desire to be a photographer. (9:25) So it was a case of I've followed that, (9:28) and that made perfect sense to me the first time I heard it. (9:30) And

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD, CH  [email protected] www.healandberadiant.com

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP [email protected] www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk 

(0:00) Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia here in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist (0:21) and specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant (0:28) hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) I'm fine. I'm fine.Are you? (0:38) Get rid of that little we're recording button. It always drives me bonkers watching that. (0:45) All nice and refreshed after a weekend.(0:49) Yes. I didn't do anything work related except upload yesterday's podcast. (0:57) But we've had wonderful.The weather is now, I would say, broken. We had high 90s for a long time (1:05) and it was very exhausting and some major thunderstorms. But now it's mid 80s, if we're (1:12) lucky.And that's great. We went for a lovely long walk by the river. It's very nice.And it's (1:20) whether you can bear to go out and do some gardening in the 90s. No, nothing's happening. (1:24) No, it's actually my tomatoes are coming in.Yeah, we're going out there now. (1:29) Oh, oh, definitely. We've grown tomatoes out there, but we're a little bit late planting them.(1:35) They're not quite flowered yet. So we're just hoping fingers crossed that we're not too late. (1:40) It actually rained here yesterday for the first time in weeks and weeks.And considering I'm (1:48) north west England, it's always raining. Yeah. Not enough for it to stay wet, but it still (1:56) rained because it was, you know, there was rain on the cars and a few of the windows and everything.(2:01) So that was nice. That cooled it down a little tiny bit. So but it's overcast today, but that's (2:08) OK.It was an admin day for me today. So self-improvement and yeah, self-confidence, (2:15) which is another area where I hope most is going to be very helpful. (2:19) Massively, massively, can't it? Yeah.And it probably is very much in that you work with (2:25) small children or not even small, but, you know, don't forget to be eight or nine. They're very (2:30) self-conscious. Yes.Yeah. I see a lot of children for confidence, self-improvement. (2:39) I wouldn't I don't really use that word self-improvement for the children because (2:43) they wouldn't understand it.But confidence, self-esteem and self-belief, (2:49) I feel that they all fall hand in hand. They don't like self-improvement, (2:53) but they're OK with self-esteem. That's great.Exactly. Yeah. Educated crowd.Yeah. I don't (2:59) think the word self-improvement is used that often for the children. Confidence, definitely.(3:05) Mm hmm. I think children, from my point of view, I think children underestimate how confident they (3:13) actually are because when they come across something that's unfamiliar or something (3:20) they've never done before, something tells them that, you know, they can't do it. (3:26) And which is also self-improvement when thinking of adults.Yeah. It sounds like (3:33) massaging your ego. But for kids, it's self-confidence at school.Yes, I can do that. (3:40) I don't know what all those symbols are in between the numbers, but I know I can figure it out. Yeah.(3:47) Most definitely. Absolutely. And exams.If you don't have some confidence when you walk in the (3:52) exam room, it's awful. I think children, I think children underestimate themselves, how confident (3:59) they actually are. Because I see a lot of children, because we live in a rugby town, (4:05) a rugby league town, and there's a lot of boys and girls who both play rugby league.(4:13) And it is a very, very competitive sport to be in. And it's a very, it's a tough sport. It really is (4:22) a tough sport.But the children that come to see me for sports related issues, they've already (4:30) got that confidence. It's just sometimes it's hidden. So it's up to me to sort of draw it back (4:35) out again.You work with a lot of junior athletes. I wouldn't say a lot, but a fair few. Yeah.Usually (4:45) what happens is when I see somebody from, say, a football team or a rugby team, I usually get a (4:53) trickle of children afterwards because their parents or whoever will say, you know, I've been (5:00) to see theirs, you know, and this is what I can do. You advertise in their little programmes, (5:05) they give out the games. I don't.I don't actually. But maybe you should think about it. (5:10) I know that is something.My grandson plays football and he plays in his league. It's not (5:19) in my town. It's in the next town across and he plays in his league.And I am going to sponsor (5:28) the team. Not this season coming, but the next season I'm going to sponsor them. So (5:34) they'll have my name all over their kit.They have your name on their jerseys. Yes, they will. (5:41) Yes, they will.Including my grandson. So he's quite happy about it. I can't remember my kids (5:47) baseball.That's that's the thing here. My kids are pretty ancient now, but they all had the (5:56) numbers on the front and on the backs was, you know, like a repair shop or something. (6:01) I'm glad you know, I've got to figure out some way of getting my name out a bit more.(6:05) Yeah, I saw a couple of couple of young boys for confidence and self-esteem really issues. (6:15) And I've offered to go and do a talk to the football team. So I'm just waiting for the coach (6:21) to come back and we can arrange some some date dates.Because if I'm right, I think football (6:28) has finished now. I might be wrong. Sorry, I think a football is a cold weather thing.(6:38) Yeah, I think it starts again like September or I don't know. I might be a bit confused. (6:45) Yeah.So I think football is due to start again after the World Cup. See what happens in it. But (6:53) I did.Funnily enough, talking about confidence, self-improvement, a couple of years ago, (7:00) I was on Twitter. It was when Twitter was good and I was on Twitter and there is a business forum (7:07) that you can go on for your area. So it was St. Helens businesses and somebody ran a raffle and it (7:15) was 20 pounds, I think it was, and went into a draw to win a sponsorship for an adult football (7:25) team.And I won it quite a few years ago. It's probably about seven, eight years ago. And I (7:30) won it.So my name was all over their jerseys. I got a free jersey as well. And I also went down (7:38) pre-match and spoke to the team.Excellent. And it was lovely. It was really it was good.(7:45) It was way out of my comfort zone because that's not what I do. But that is a very good thing to (7:53) do for yourself. So often it was, it was good.And funnily enough, I was sorting out my wardrobes (7:58) and I found the they gave me the jersey that they gave me and it brought a smile to my face. (8:04) And I think, do you know what? I'll get that framed one day, you know, and stick it in (8:09) in the cabin. Yeah.Eventually. Yeah. It was it was nice.It was an honour. (8:14) So it cost me £20, had my name all over their jersey. And I went down and did some pre-match (8:22) talks to the players as well.It was good. Yeah. So maybe you're going to have to think about (8:28) where you can go, Denise, so you can spend.Well, yeah, there's quite a few. There's lots (8:32) of little kids sports teams, that's for sure. Self-improvement.It covers, it covers just a (8:40) general sort of, oh, I should start walking again or I should start swimming again. Right. (8:45) Well, all of those things that certainly if people are considering doing those things and (8:51) need encouragement, hypnosis is a very good way.And that's a very good time to listen to (8:56) hypnosis tapes, which sounds like it might be dangerous, but you don't get hypnotised (9:00) by a hypnosis tape, the kind I'm talking about. It talks about it. There's sort of (9:05) there's hypnosis walking, which sounds weird and it isn't nearly as weird as it sounds, (9:11) but it's good.And if you've got a circuit walk that you do, it's excellent, (9:16) because you're zoned out anyway on those things. You're just listening to the right messages. (9:21) It is.And that's what it's about, isn't it? It's about recognising where you need to improve (9:28) without, like you said, without being too down on yourself, too critical, but recognising what (9:33) improvement you need. My improvement at the moment is as far as my business is concerned, (9:40) but it's also about my weight. So I'm on that journey of self-improvement as far as my weight (9:47) and my health is concerned.Has the summer made it difficult for you? No, it's made it easier. (9:54) For me, it's not great because we've got two really fantastic ice cream places near us. (10:02) But you have to travel to get to them, so it's not like I walk past them everywhere.(10:06) I was just going to say I'm going to put myself on mute. There's a helicopter just gone past, (10:11) but I think it's... I can't hear it. Yeah, it's gone now.It was very loud. Yeah. So yeah, (10:18) self-improvement, you could... hypnosis is a really good thing for us, isn't it? It's a really good (10:23) approach and a methodology to use because you're using your subconscious mind, (10:30) which is where your self-talk comes from.It's all your self-talk is. (10:37) Yeah, exactly. Anyway, I mean, we are all supposed to be improving all the time.That's what we're (10:43) here for. It doesn't have to be, I'm going to be a gold medal winner at the Ol

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH www.healandberadiant.com                                                  [email protected]

Les Roberts Dip.Hyp GHR ADPR GQHP www. Lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk              [email protected]

Astrid Harms  www.astridharms.com                                                                                   https://www.youtube.com/@soulessensecoaching

 Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who would like to know more (0:14) about the fascinating world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.(0:19) I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and specialist in working with children. (0:24) And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant hypnotist. (0:30) We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) Welcome, welcome to the next episode. (0:41) And we have a lovely guest on today.(0:43) And her name is Astrid Harms. (0:46) Astrid is a hypnotherapist and coach in Amsterdam. (0:50) And she works with clients from all over the world.(0:52) Her background is in TV media. (0:56) And she has a degree in technical communication. (0:59) Astrid has a passion for making complex ideas clear and accessible.(1:05) A skill she now brings to her work in hypnotherapy. (1:09) Astrid's deeply fascinated by the mind-body connections (1:12) and the frontiers of human consciousness. (1:15) So Astrid stays up to date on all the latest research in neuroscience, (1:20) cell biology, biochemistry, cognitive science.(1:24) Astrid specializes in challenging issues such as tinnitus and chronic conditions. (1:31) And what Astrid does is she combines hypnosis and coaching (1:34) with evidence-based insights from mind and body science. (1:40) So welcome, Astrid.(1:41) And it's lovely to have you here. (1:42) Thank you. Lovely to be here, Liz.(1:44) And thanks for the introduction. (1:46) Okay. Okay.(1:47) We've met a few times, haven't we, at the conventions. (1:50) And we managed to have some meaningful conversations in Antwerp, didn't we? (1:57) So the reason why I asked you to come on was if you could talk about tinnitus with us. (2:03) Because we have quite a few clients, don't we, Denise, with tinnitus.(2:09) I've got one at the moment as well. (2:11) So it would be very, very interesting for you to give us a talk on it. (2:15) Oh, yeah, sure.(2:16) Yeah, so tinnitus isn't just a noise in the head. (2:19) I mean, for the person it is, of course it is. (2:23) And nobody else can hear it, usually.(2:27) So clients are very much left alone. (2:29) And there's no official medication or device for it to cure it. (2:35) So doctors usually say, there is nothing you can do.(2:38) You have to live with it. (2:39) And that's what sends some people off on a downward spiral. (2:43) And others, they become either desperate or negative.(2:48) Because, you know, you have to live with it. (2:49) Most of the people I've met who suffer from that are also exhausted. (2:54) Yes.(2:55) It doesn't ever stop. (2:57) It never stops. (2:58) Well, for some people it does, actually.(3:00) When they focus on something else or when it's dependent on either stress or other input, (3:06) like food or pressure or whatever it is, then it can go away, too, or become quieter. (3:13) So it can change in volume, in how much annoyance it brings. (3:17) With the day, there's so many.(3:21) And some clients even have different noises. (3:23) Some have musical tinnitus. (3:25) So they hear really... (3:26) That sounds pleasant.(3:29) Yeah, well, it depends. (3:31) Yeah, it goes on too long. (3:32) Even if you listen to your favorite song all day long, at some point it gets on your nerves.(3:37) So, yeah. (3:39) But yeah, so tinnitus for the clients is, yeah, it eats up their patience. (3:44) It makes some of them anxious.(3:46) Others become used to it. (3:48) And they're like, oh, God, this is annoying. (3:50) And they usually come to us, hypnotherapists, as a last resort.(3:53) They've tried everything else. (3:55) They might have been told very often. (3:57) They're told by their doctors, well, try to reduce stress.(4:01) Try to change your diet. (4:02) Maybe exercise more. (4:04) You know, the usual lifestyle advice.(4:06) And that is all correct. (4:07) But most people don't know how to do that or can't get themselves to do that. (4:11) Reducing stress is what I do mainly.(4:14) And reducing that anxiety with the tinnitus. (4:18) But we also work on the underlying factors. (4:20) Because tinnitus very often is just a symptom and not a disease or a condition in itself.(4:26) It can become a condition when it is the cause of distress, anxiety and more. (4:31) So that's when it's called a disorder very often or just a condition. (4:36) So as a symptom, it can be a symptom of over 200 causes and comorbidities.(4:42) It may start and nobody knows exactly why all of the cases come about. (4:48) There are four or five or maybe even more models that we can use to explain where it comes from. (4:56) And in my experience, most of them cover part of it, but none of them cover all.(5:00) So the clinical explanation is it's a heterogeneous or mixed group of conditions (5:09) stemming from a big diversity of causes. (5:12) That's as defined as we can get it. (5:17) So yeah, it might be from becoming deaf or hearing loss.(5:22) It might be from somatosensory issues and head and neck issues. (5:26) It might be from inflammatory issues, chronic conditions. (5:30) Medications, cancer medications, certain vaccines or diseases may cause it.(5:37) And also, of course, the huge psychological side that we definitely can help with. (5:41) Sorry, my cat's trying to climb on the desk. (5:45) And yeah, but we can do a lot with hypnotherapy, (5:49) even in the fields of inflammatory causes and somatosensory causes, (5:53) because we work a lot or we can work a lot in pain.(5:57) And it's very often compared to chronic pain, too, (6:00) which is not the full picture, but it can be. (6:02) And yeah, we've got so much influence on all the little parts and bits with hypnotherapy (6:07) that move tendencies. (6:09) If you imagine like a stew that's on the fire and the stress (6:12) that comes through the tendencies is the big fire.(6:15) And all the ingredients is what we're picking out (6:17) so that we get a clear soup at some point. (6:18) Well, that clear soup, forget the clear soup, (6:20) but we want to reduce the issues and we want to reduce the distress as well. (6:26) And that's where we usually have a lot of success (6:30) with reducing, first of all, the distress itself.(6:34) And then also the sound itself can go down because the distress is reduced. (6:39) Right. That explains a lot, though, really, doesn't it? (6:42) That explains a lot with tinnitus, especially, like you said.(6:46) Does it ever occur just on its own? (6:49) No. Good, good question, because most or lots of researchers have found (6:55) that tinnitus has two or more causes that occur together to create tinnitus. (7:01) So many of my clients, they will have had something like (7:05) adverse childhood experiences or trauma in childhood (7:08) and then something else coming up out of one of the different groups.(7:12) So inflammatory cause or more stress. (7:17) So those kinds of things or just noise trauma. (7:21) Veterans are very susceptible to getting tinnitus.(7:24) And that's actually one of the highest, one of the most important reasons (7:28) why veterans, you know, become disabled. Tinnitus. (7:33) Wow.Wow. (7:35) I've got a client at the moment who I'm seeing, (7:38) and she has quite a few complex conditions. (7:43) She like fibromyalgia.(7:47) That's a big connection. (7:49) Yeah. And also she's been in a few road traffic accidents where, (7:55) you know, she's not broken any bones, but she's, you know, (7:58) she's had some impact onto her shoulders, onto her neck.(8:02) So I think that explains it really, doesn't it? (8:05) Well, I wouldn't be definite about it because there's always (8:10) reasons that might be above our capability. (8:13) So I would always send a client when they haven't been to the doctor, (8:16) I would send them to the doctor, (8:17) maybe have them look at just the ears because it might just be earwax. (8:21) That's blocking the ear canal.(8:23) Just be something simple like that. (8:25) And I don't think it's fair to have a client come to you, pay for sessions, (8:28) and then afterwards find out they've only got earwax on their ears. (8:31) That would be stupid.(8:33) But OK, it might also be something like a tumor or something else, something. (8:37) Yeah, something important going on that we shouldn't overlook (8:40) because we can't diagnose. I can't diagnose.(8:41) No, no, not at all. (8:42) As you know, I don't see anybody unless their doctor said it's OK. (8:48) I've actually had permission of her doctor because it was her doctor that (8:52) recommended that she went for hypnosis.(8:55) Yeah, fibromyalgia is a very common one, yeah. (8:58) So that would potentially be where I say this fits into the inflammatory bracket. (9:05) Fibromyalgia is also one of those, for so long it was an imaginary disease (9:11) that people give themselves a label.(9:13) And it really is only in the last few years that it's become accepted (9:17) that it's an actual diagnosis. (9:19) Yeah, because you're a retired doctor, Denise, aren't you? (9:25) W

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH www.healandberadiant.com       [email protected]

Les Roberts ACH www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk [email protected]

 Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist and (0:22) specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor (0:26) and consultant hypnotist. (0:29) We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.(0:33) So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) So hi, how are you? (0:39) I'm good and the weather has cooled off. It's only in the 80s now, so people can barely go out.(0:45) It was so bad. 95 is not comfortable. I don't care where you are.(0:49) No, I can imagine. It's just so nice here. It's just so nice.(0:56) And I know it's going to break eventually because we live northwest of England. (1:02) It's bound to be, you know, rainy, but it's just so nice at the moment. (1:07) Sitting out in the morning.(1:09) Plus the fact that now the smoke from the fires in Canada were across half of America. (1:17) Yeah. (1:18) So you couldn't even go, let's drive to the next town.Same problem. (1:21) And driving was going to make it worse. (1:22) Yeah.A couple of days ago I said to my husband, I said, I can smell smoke, you know, like wood (1:28) smoke, like smoke, smoke. And we thought, well, there's nothing around here. (1:33) And it wasn't until we looked at the maps where the fires are and you've got like the moors and (1:41) you've also got Conway, you know, around Conway and Snowdonia.So we were obviously getting it (1:47) from both ends, depending on, you know, which way the wind was blowing. (1:51) Yeah. (1:51) Yeah.But nothing for the last few days. (1:54) So what I thought of talking about today, if that's OK with you, is the myths and misconceptions (2:02) surrounding hypnosis or hypnotherapy, whatever you want to call it. (2:07) Can you, yes, I do think it's an interesting topic.(2:11) Can you remember the things you thought about hypnosis before you became a hypnotist? (2:16) Yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely.To be perfectly honest, my husband, when I was training to be (2:24) a hypnotherapist, my husband used to say to me, is it this weekend that you're going away doing (2:30) your Voodoo Jedi stuff again? Oh, yeah. (2:33) So and he just said it as a joke. But when you when you think about what people, their perception on (2:41) hypnosis, it's all mind bending, mind control stuff, isn't it? (2:45) And it's based on movies and TV, actually.(2:49) Yeah. And we've said it quite a few times, haven't we, that, you know, the movie industry (2:54) has sort of taken the mick about what over what we do. You know, it's not.(3:00) I mean, honestly, they do that with every single profession. (3:03) Yeah. There's a lot of that.I don't watch anything medical because it drives me nuts. (3:08) Well, I can imagine. Yeah.You being a retired doctor, then you see (3:12) a medical program, you think, yeah, but I'm finally watching cop shows because (3:17) nobody is a cop in my house. So I don't care. (3:20) But it is so we've had this discussion that I know we've had this discussion privately.(3:26) And I know I've mentioned it a few times on our podcast that I've had to change my business name (3:35) to my masters because the schools would not recognize hypnosis. They don't like hypnosis. (3:43) They don't like the word hypnosis.We have a similar problem in this country. (3:47) There are certain states that don't allow you to use the term hypnotherapist. (3:51) I believe so.It doesn't appear on any of my written stuff. It's silly. I mean, (3:55) respiratory techs don't get flack from them.They're allowed to call themselves therapists. (4:00) You know, we're not competing for your business. It can get people in some serious problems.(4:07) And fortunately, it's also a reason for people to sort of rebrand. (4:12) So all these looks like hypnosis to me kind of things getting labeled. (4:17) So if I was to work over in the US, I mean, literally physically work over there, (4:24) I couldn't call myself a hypnotherapist, could I? (4:26) Depends.Do you have a psychology doctorate by any chance? (4:31) No. (4:33) Surprising. Very few people do.In the greatest scheme of things. But you would have to have a (4:40) license as a psychotherapist, not a hypnotherapist. (4:44) So what could I call myself? (4:46) If I were using my medical degree, if I was licensed still as a doctor, which I gave up (4:53) because it was an expensive thing to do and not be a doctor, I could probably use it because (4:58) they're not going to come after me.(5:01) So is that why you call yourself a hypnotist and not a hypnotherapist? (5:07) I don't have to worry about which state I'm talking to. There's two states I can't work in. (5:12) The state of Washington, which requires you to be licensed in Washington, and the state of (5:18) Connecticut, which requires you to be licensed in Connecticut.(5:22) Right. (5:23) And you don't need a licensure anywhere else. So I just pass them on.I know people in both (5:28) the states, and I pass people on. But I did consider it for a while. If I had somebody (5:35) contacted me who had a really interesting problem, I might go and see.(5:40) Yeah, yeah. (5:41) And what's so silly about it is it's just pay your money and get the stamp. They don't (5:46) check your credentials.They do make you take, and this is truly bizarre to me, (5:51) they make you take a test on HIV transmission, which if you consider that you and I both (5:57) work a lot on a Zoom link, remarkably little risk of AIDS. I suppose it was, it's probably (6:05) a lot of other, that's probably a requirement for a lot of other licenses to get general (6:10) information to make sure they're covered. (6:12) It just nuts.It's that, pay us $175 and you'll be licensed too. (6:17) I've just been updating. The reason why I ask you is I've just been updating all my (6:21) insurances from moving premises and my indemnity and all of that malarkey.And I've just found (6:31) out that I have to take out extra on my insurance because I work with people in Canada and America. (6:41) Because they like to have bigger lawsuits. (6:43) That's all I can guess why.I haven't the foggiest idea, but everywhere else, (6:49) everywhere else is fine, but the USA and Canada. (6:53) How much does it cost you for your insurance? You can take this out if you wish. (6:57) To be perfectly honest, I don't know because I'm just waiting for it to come back now because (7:02) it's all changed because I work- (7:05) I had to have a $3 million policy, but it doesn't cost me very much.(7:09) I think I've- (7:10) But they cost more. If I did anaesthetic level, I would require a higher degree, but I don't do that. (7:21) Yeah.Well, my indemnity is 10 million. That's because I was advised to take that out when I was (7:27) doing all of the classes when we had 20, 30 children. Whereas now I'm just waiting for it (7:33) to come down because I don't need hardly any contents insurance now.I've gone from (7:41) 20, 30,000 contents to less than five, which is great. It's great for me because (7:48) all the expensive things like the laptop and my phones and things like that, (7:55) they all stay with me in the house. Of course, the house is alarmed and everything.(8:01) And insured. (8:01) And insured, yeah. But the only thing that's got to change now is I have to contact my (8:10) contents and building insurance for home because people will be walking through the garden and- (8:17) Snuggling board.(8:18) Or something. Yeah, exactly. So all of these things I've been doing today and it just made (8:23) me realize about all the misconceptions and the myths behind hypnosis because I had to change (8:30) my name.I had to explain to my insurance why I've changed my name as well. And it just made (8:38) me think, you know, there is still that stigma, isn't there, about hypnosis or hypnotherapy? (8:45) And you just- (8:45) Definitely got that voodoo- (8:47) Voodoo Jedi stuff, yeah. (8:49) Yeah.I don't know about Jedi, but certainly. And yeah, I guess they could make the whole rise up. (8:54) It's- I think we do- we're always complaining about movies and TV, but I think that is a lot (9:01) of the reason that that idea has gone on.And the stage shows. I've only been to one stage show in (9:08) my life for that. It was a local guy who works reasonably locally and he was doing a show for (9:16) some organization that was charitable, like the Knights of somebody or other.(9:20) And he was quite good. Everything he was doing, you feel like there was no point to it. That's (9:27) my issue with the stage shows.It's just really, why would you want to cluck like a chicken? If (9:31) you want to cluck like a chicken, go ahead. I just don't see the value to that other than (9:38) giggling at people and that's not my kind of humor. So, it is interesting to me.I've only- (9:46) other than my own physician that I've spoken to a lot of these 70 clients, there's only about (9:51) three or four other doctors around here who've ever asked anything about it. I think that is (9:56) really the sticking point. We need to get more professionals.We do. To realize that it's not (10:02) something to do at a party because it's fun. We do, yeah.Which of course is how- you know, (10:08) what we think of as anesthesia, chloroform and ether, those were done at parties. People took (10:14) tanks and they just- everybody giggled. Oh my goodness, really? And

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Denise Billen-Mejia MD CH www.healandberadiant.com       [email protected]

Les Roberts ACH www.lesrobertshypnotherapy.co.uk [email protected]

Albert Bramante PhD https://bramanteartists.com    [email protected]

 Welcome to Two Hypnotherapists Talking with me, Denise Billen-Mejia, in Delaware, USA. (0:06) And me, Les Roberts, in St Helens, United Kingdom. (0:10) This weekly podcast is for anyone and everyone who'd like to know more about the fascinating (0:14) world of hypnosis and the benefits that it offers.I'm a clinical hypnotherapist (0:21) and specialist in working with children. And I'm a retired medical doctor and consultant (0:28) hypnotist. We are Two Hypnotherapists Talking.So let's get on with the episode. (0:36) Welcome again. Today, I'm really happy to be introducing Albert Bramante, (0:42) who I met on a course about three, four years ago, I think.I've been always a little bit (0:48) fascinated about what he actually does in hypnosis, since he's also a talent agent. (0:53) This is an unusual thing. So Albert, thank you so much for coming to talk to us today.(0:59) Well, first, I really want to thank you, Denise, and Les for having me on here. (1:03) And I'm really happy to be here. And yeah, this was all kind of an accidental, you know, (1:10) discovery of mine.If you asked me when I was growing up, would I ever work in the entertainment (1:17) industry? I would say no, that's foolish. I always was intended to be a clinical psychologist (1:24) and college professor. And that was where I really, where I wanted to, where I felt like (1:31) I really thrived in, was psychology and research and teaching.But there was a part of me that (1:39) enjoyed the arts ever so slightly. I was in the high school drama club for three years. (1:45) I took a few acting classes as electives and theater classes.And I really enjoyed it, (1:52) but it wasn't really anything I didn't really pursue or take seriously. Now, ironically, (1:59) I tell this story. When I was in grad school, I went on a whim and a dare to go get my fortune read (2:06) by, you know, a local reader.And I really felt walking out of there like, this woman does not (2:13) know what she's talking about. Not gifted. But the one thing that really stood out for me, (2:17) and the reason why I bring this up, because I asked her, when she asked if I had any questions, (2:21) I said, well, what do you see me in career-wise? This was way before, you know, years before I (2:26) started working in the entertainment industry.But she says, I see you working in show business. (2:31) And immediately I thought, okay, no. You know, this woman is all for rocker.I'm out of here. (2:38) Rockers, you know, totally. I walked out of there and even told my friend, you know, (2:42) who I went with, I said, you know, this was a ripoff.And I didn't think anything of it for (2:47) years, but I happened to be driving past where the office was, and I still saw that she was there. I (2:52) didn't go see her. But when I drove past, that memory flashed in my head years later, and the (2:58) hair on my arm stood up because I was like, wow, she was spot on.But who would have thought? (3:04) So what happened was, it all started when I was finishing up my master's degree. You know, (3:10) I was going, you know, I received a master's degree from Seton Hall University in New Jersey (3:17) in psychology with a concentration in family therapy. During my last semester, I did a (3:23) practicum, unconventional practicum, but it was at a New York City talk show.And it was a staple, (3:31) for those of you who may remember, it was a Sally Jesser FAL show back in the 90s and early 2000s. (3:39) And what my role was working in the aftercare, what we meant by aftercare, (3:44) is for legal purposes, all of these talk shows had to have a debriefing afterwards, (3:50) you know, or some sort of, or follow up, just in case nobody, you know, didn't need an extreme (3:55) after an episode, because there was a, you know, an incident in the 90s with a dog show where (4:00) someone was murdered. So they wanted to kind of cover their, you know, themselves by creating, (4:06) you know, an aftercare department.So that's how it started, working with the social worker on the (4:11) show. And I realized, first of all, TV is very chaotic, and I never wanted to work in production (4:19) again, you know, dog show environment again, because it really gave me a rude awakening. (4:25) And what the rude awakening was, how much of it is performative, versus real, yeah, (4:33) the issues were real, the people, the stories were somewhat real, you know, but it was all staged.(4:41) Like the host, for instance, like Sadr just read the L, everything was scripted, every comment, (4:49) every question, every remark, was already scripted, he was reading a teleprompter, (4:54) or someone was feeding, you know, in an earpiece. And the questions were, it was all manufactured. (5:01) So, and doesn't surprise me now, you know, years later, at the time, it did when I was young.(5:07) So after that happened, I kept in contact with the people, you know, from the show. (5:13) And this was the same year, unfortunately, that 9-11 had happened in New York, (5:17) and being very close to that, I was very affected, you know, in that, you know, every industry was (5:24) affected in the where I'm at. So I started volunteering with a group of people, you know, (5:29) some of the contacts from the show, and a lot of that were actors.You know, a lot of those people (5:34) were actors I was volunteering with, some were established, you know, some were, you know, (5:40) because they were given back and trying to, you know, because they're New York icons, you know, (5:45) and so that started getting me into just an acting. Now, I really, you know, so I did my (5:51) hand a little bit as an actor in New York, local, you know, stuff. But I realized I didn't really (5:56) like acting, for instance, but what I loved was the energy of actors, the psyche of the actor, (6:04) you know, the energetic field.It was just really compelling, like how much I really just wanted to (6:10) be around actors. And so I was like, okay, I don't want to be an actor myself. But how can I still (6:17) keep myself immersed in this environment? So I said, Well, let me become an advocate or a support (6:22) agent.And so I started my, you know, representing actors in 2004. Now, when I started this process, (6:29) I was also going back for a PhD in psychology. And one thing that I kept noticing, especially (6:35) with the actors I was working with, was there was a lot of self sabotage happening, where they were (6:42) not preparing fully, not showing up for auditions, being late, you know, all these factors that were (6:48) kind of taking themselves out of it, out of the field, which is already immensely competitive (6:54) show business.It is a one of probably the most competitive industry out there. You know, it's (7:00) 97 to 98% of actors that are declared are unemployed chronically. So it's not an easy (7:08) industry.But if you're already taking yourself out of it by self sabotage, it makes it even more (7:12) difficult. And I wanted to know why this was happening, because this was not a calm, this (7:18) was not like a one off thing. This was happening a lot.So when it came time to do my investigative (7:24) dissertation for my PhD, I said, what's going on with these actors? What's psychologically (7:30) happening? Why are these actors self sabotaging? Because in another industry I work with is also (7:35) in higher ed, I've been in higher ed for 20, you know, 22, 23 years as a college professor. And (7:41) I've seen it several times, hundreds of times where really some students are really talented (7:47) and smart, but they're not self-sabotaging as well. Yeah.So that was the top coming to class. (7:54) I'm studying, you know, not, not opening up the textbook, but when I would speak to them or, (7:58) or having interactions, I'm like, you're very intelligent. I don't know what's happening here.(8:04) And so it was that combination of those two things that were like, I really need to start (8:09) doing a deep dive on self-sabotage. And then that's when I started discovering I could notice (8:13) as an NLP because of, you know, working a lot with limiting beliefs and patterns and identity (8:19) was a huge part of it, you know, and, and so, and plus I was also getting a little disillusioned (8:25) with clinical psychology. Now I'm not here to say I think clinical psychologists do a great job.(8:31) I think it's a wide, you know, I have immense respect, but for me, there were a lot of things (8:36) that weren't resonating. The labeling, the diagnostic, the pathologizing was a big factor (8:44) for me. And then also the prolonged therapy.I mean, I would have colleagues and professors (8:49) that were saying, Oh, I've seen this person for eight, nine, 10 years, and we're starting to make (8:55) breakthroughs. I'm like, what do you mean starting? You know, I would think at that point, you know, (9:00) that's a lot of money to burn through. And for very little progress, it's got to be never away.(9:08) Now I'll backtrack when I was in grad school, I was, was exposed, not, not in the context of (9:15) hypnosis, but like with Fritz Perls and Milton Erickson and, and Jay Haley and Chloe Madonnas, (9:22) who were proposing and the way we were taught was it was solution focused therapy, (9:28) which actually is really a foundation of a lot of hypnotic and NLP principles. (9:34) And I really found myself so much identifying with these people, you know, because it was get (9:40) in,