In this episode of Real Talk Payments, host Kapil Mokhat is joined by Albert Drouart, CTO of Pagos, along with Colin Luce, CEO and Co-founder of Basis Theory, and James Armstead, CTO of Basis Theory, for a lively conversation about where payments infrastructure is headed next. What starts as a discussion about bundled versus unbundled payments quickly turns into a bigger look at merchant control, data ownership, orchestration, vaulting, and the role AI may play in the future of commerce. 

The conversation digs into a challenge many merchants face today: staying with the status quo because change feels too complex, even when better performance, more flexibility, and stronger economics may be on the table. The group explores why inaction can be just as risky as making the wrong infrastructure decision, and why merchants should think carefully about the foundation they are building on as payments become more strategic to the business. 

The episode also looks ahead to agentic commerce and asks what happens when AI-driven experiences begin initiating more of the buying journey. With a mix of strong opinions, practical advice, and a few bold predictions, this is a conversation for payment leaders, product teams, and merchants trying to separate hype from what will actually matter in the years ahead. If you care about the future of the payments stack, this episode is worth a listen.