Got a problem child or teenager that acts out, has serious behaviors or acts aggressively? Are there moments, even frequent moments when they don’t even seem like they’re your child because it seems they have no interest in connecting with you? I invited an expert here with me who is eager to help you understand and connect with your child.

My guest is Certified Human Behavior Consultant and Master Trainer, Karen Wagnon. Karen is also the author of "My Three and Me: A Journey in Parenting by Design," Her mission is to empower and equip parents with the tools they need to cultivate strong, positive relationships with their children.

To learn more about what Karen Wagnon is doing or to get her book "My Three and Me" visit: https://www.teachingouryouth.com/home

To connect with Karen directly, email her at: [email protected]

Special thanks to InGenius Prep for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. To learn more about InGenius Prep or to claim your free consultation, visit:https://ingeniusprep.com/get-a-free-consultation/?utm_campaign=2024+Podcast+Email+Marketing&utm_content=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_medium=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_source=Fatherhood+Podcast&utm_term=Fatherhood+Podcast

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - Understanding Conflicts With Your Kids

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You got a problem child or teenager that acts out, has serious behaviors or acts aggressively?

Are there moments even frequent moments when they don't seem like they're even your

child because it seems they have no interest in connecting with you?

I have an expert here with me who is eager to help you understand and connect with your

child.

You'll hear from her in just a moment so don't go anywhere.

Before we begin, I'd like to thank our proud sponsor of this episode and the Fatherhood

Challenge, Ingenius Prep.

Ingenius Prep is the world's premier admissions consulting firm, proud to be officially recognized

as the country's top college admissions consultants, helping students prepare for admissions

to top schools through individualized educational programs that increase chances of admission

by up to 10 times.

Ingenius Prep students work with former admission officers to differentiate themselves

from other competitive students in three areas colleges evaluate students.

In academics, extracurricular activities and personal characteristics.

Just this past admission cycle, Ingenius Prep students have secured 110 offers from Ivy

League schools, 268 offers from top 20 schools and 904 offers from top 50 schools.

Ingenius Prep's student success lies within the fact that Ingenius Prep is an all in one

consulting firm offering every service a family needs, whether it be test prep, tailored

candidacy, building mentorship, academic mentorships, the leadership and innovation lab, soft skills,

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to the most effective and authentic extent to share with colleges.

Just click on the link in the episode description to book a free strategy call with one of Ingenius

Prep's college experts.

Or you can visit IngeniusPrep.com that's IngeniusPrep.com and let them know you came from the

Fatherhood Challenge.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere

to take great pride in their role and to challenge society to understand how important fathers

are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone.

Thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is a certified human behavior consultant and master trainer.

She's also the author of My Three and Me, a journey in parenting by design.

Her mission is to empower and equip parents with the tools they need to cultivate strong,

positive relationships with their children.

I'm so glad Karen Wagnan is here with me.

Karen, welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge.

Jonathan, thank you so much for inviting me to join you today.

Karen, please share your story about how you became a behavior consultant and where did

you find your passion to help parents connect with their kids?

Jonathan, that is an excellent question and many people ask me, how did you get involved

in what you do today?

And I often say, have you met my son, Kyle?

Kyle was my challenging son.

But let me take you back a little bit further.

I mean, I always wanted to be a mom.

I love children.

I love the wonder in children as they learn and discover their world.

I just love seeing life through the lens of a child as they go through life with different

experiences.

And so I became a mom.

I was in my late 20s.

So I was a little older than maybe some other moms.

So I had already had a career that I was successful at and then I had my children.

And so of course, I'm thinking is though, I would successful in my career that I would

be a successful mom.

And clearly, let me tell you, I was not.

I was failing and failing miserably.

And I just didn't understand.

Now let me clear this.

I knew how to keep my kids alive.

I knew how to, you know, the developmental milestones, but I really struggled with behavior.

And why my kids were doing certain things that would be the exact opposite in Kyle's

instance of what I'm even asking him to do right in front of me.

And I struggled for many years with defiant behavior from my son.

And it was not until I attended a business conference with my husband that I heard Dr. Robert

Roan from Personality Insights speak on the disc model of human behavior.

Now the disc model of human behavior is used a lot in business settings.

So anything from leadership and team building to to sales connecting with clients.

So it's a model that is used in corporate America.

But as I sat there listening to him, Jonathan, I was like, how does he know that this is happening

in my home?

How does he know so much about my family dynamics?

Because what he was explaining about different predictable patterns in human behavior, although

he was talking about this in the workplace is exactly what I was dealing with in my home.

And I was just so intrigued with what he shared because no one talks about this from the adult

child perspective.

Now look, I had bought many books when I was struggling with Kyle.

I brought the Strong Will Child, which is probably a very old book for many of us.

And I'm probably showing my age, but anything that would give me some insights as to how to

parent this Strong Will Child.

And let me tell you, nothing was working.

And as I listened to Dr. Rome talk about the different personality dynamics of the family, it is

if someone took the cloud clear that my blinders were off and I could clearly see why I was

struggling as a mom, I didn't understand my kid.

I didn't understand the motive and drive behind the behavior.

I kept trying to address the surface behavior, mostly defiance for him.

But if I didn't get to the why that behavior would continue.

So I actually went and purchased some of Dr. Rome's books.

I read the books, I came home, I was trying to apply what I learned.

I was tripping all over myself.

It didn't, it did not go well.

So I went back and decided that I would study with Dr. Rome and he then became my mentor.

So I went through all of his personality trainings, the basic training, master training boot

camp for speaking.

And I realized that I was not alone in this struggle with parenting Strong Will kids.

And many times the strategies that we are given by most experts are what I call the bandaid,

addressing the surface behavior.

But if I did not get to the why and understand the motive and drive, the internal motive and

drive that was driving the external behavior, I was going to stay in a power struggle and

conflict with my son for the rest of my life.

And I just wasn't willing to accept that in my relationship.

I knew I could do better.

I just didn't know what it was, just didn't know what it was.

And so I realized after I started to understand how to apply the model in my family dynamics

that I wasn't the only one that was struggling with this.

And the more I began to share this with, actually I started sharing it mostly in ministry, you

know, with moms groups at churches and women's groups, about understanding the different personality

dynamics.

It just grew from there to taking it into education, classroom behavior management.

So one and so forth.

So that's where it started.

What are some of the top misconceptions about children or teens who are acting out or rebellious?

I think some of the misconceptions is that they're doing it against us.

They are doing it to rebel against us.

When in reality, they're just trying to get their social emotional needs met.

Now of course when we get into the teenage years, and I just had a conversation with

one of my daughters today who's now entering into this season with her third child is our

teens are going to want to push away from us.

And this is the design for them to become independent.

And to us as parents, when we start to see them doing things differently or act differently,

speak differently, dress differently, we start to want to take them back to the time

and our parenting where they loved and adored us and they were a little more compliant.

And so what is happening as we get through those teen years is they are separating from

us.

It's almost like they're pushing away.

I tell parents in my coaching is that they're breaking up with us for a little while.

It's like the breakup.

And sometimes when we break up with people, and I don't know if you've experienced this

Jonathan, but I have, but people just start getting mean to each other so that you don't

want to spend time together.

So if I'm mean enough to you, then you want want to be with me.

And so I experienced a lot of that myself and I'm not going to say it didn't hurt, it hurt

my heart.

It made me sad.

I started to think that I was failing as a mom, but when you understand development mentally,

what's happening inside the teenage brain as they mature and become more independent,

they're not doing it against us.

They're doing it because they're getting ready to become independent, young, resilient

adults.

I think that just lifted a huge weight off of many who are listening right now because

the way this all started out, it makes people feel like when they go through, when they

experience rebellious outbursts, things like that, when you said they're not doing it to

us.

The very first thing when it happens, the very first thing that goes through a lot of parents

minds is that I failed somehow.

I did something wrong.

Where did I mess up?

Where did I go?

And here's a common one.

Where did I go wrong with this child?

We hear that one a lot.

And so yeah, with dads, we try to connect and many times dads distance themselves from their

kids in the early years because, well, you know, they don't feel like they have a place.

They don't really know what their place is.

And so they're like, okay, well, I'll show up in the teenage years and get them ready for

adulthood.

And so they miss out on the bond that they could have had because they don't know how to create

that bond in the early years.

So when the teens become rebellious, there isn't this solid footing of a bond to be able

to go off of.

But in some cases, if the bond is there, that makes the pain all the worse when that teen

is trying to push away into adulthood.

So there are so many instances of that.

And I think what you were saying is going to be healing to so many parents.

It is what I call part of the circle of life.

And I just wrote a post about this, about the grieving that we go through through different

seasons of parenting.

And, you know, I see my daughter right now with her baby who, you know, she's going to be

ending nursing.

And then we start grieving.

That season is ending and that child doesn't need me as much anymore.

And then when they first go to school and they're leaving the home and spending more time

away from us than with us, we will grieve that season of parenting.

And then they become adolescents and they're not as dependent on us anymore and becoming

more independent and peers are more important than family.

And then we grieve that.

And then, you know, that last season is when they head off to college or they get married

and start their own family.

And then we grieve that again.

There's so many seasons of parenting in which we will grieve the changes.

And I went through that all of those seasons myself.

And especially with my last one, when it was the last one, I think I really bottomed out

because so much of my world was with my children.

But I've done my job.

I've raised them to be strong, independent young adults.

But I loved my kids.

I love spending time with my kids.

But I missed the seasons that we had before and it was hard.

It was really hard.

And so when we normalize that we are going to be sad when this happens, then we know that

it is part of that circle of life.

And so what that caused for me, Jonathan, and I'm just going to be honest with you is I had

to reconnect with Hubby, you know, because sometimes the kids are the buffer, right?

You know, like, and now the kids are going as like, we don't have a buffer anymore.

Do I still know you?

And we still have a relationship together.

And one of the first things Mark and I did when Anna finished college and we were ready

to have our life together is we actually went to a marriage, just to make sure we had

to reconnect with all the tools that we had early on in our marriage when we fell in love,

to still be in love.

But there are definitely seasons that we will go through in parenting.

But we need to lean in and celebrate and recognize that we're doing our job to raise

responsible, resilient young adults.

The good news that I see in this is that no matter what season or stage that your kids

are in, at some level, they will always need you and they will always want you and that

connection.

They will always want some kind of connection from you.

And when you pass on, they will grieve that that is no longer there at that level.

So you are always, always wanted.

You know, they just need us in a different way.

You know, I went from obviously being the sole provider and nurture of everything to then

becoming almost like the parent coach, just coaching and guiding my kids.

You know, I got to a point where I needed to what I say, you know, having boundaries, but

then I needed to open the gate and make the boundaries a little wider and let them roam

and have more opportunity to make some decisions on their own, to find their successes and struggle

through their failures and problem solve and become resilient, resilient young adults.

And you know, it's not always easy for us as parents to watch our kids fail or struggle.

And I tell parents that we're not helping them if we enable or take that pain away.

It's very similar to, you know, the caterpillar in the cocoon when it struggles to come out

becomes the butterfly.

But if we see it struggling, we try to cut the cocoon and let it out, the butterfly will

die because it didn't have the fight.

It didn't build the resilience.

And what I'm finding in some of the new parenting strategies is that pendulum has swung the

other way where we're trying to do so much for our children and not let them struggle,

not let them feel pain or sadness, that we are enabling them, that everything will be easy

and that's not reality.

That's not reality.

You know, we need to teach our kids and every time they struggle, these are learning opportunities

to not take it away from them, but to allow them to experience the consequences of their

choices and even the successes of their choices.

What are the creators of the parenting blueprint?

What is this blueprint?

How does it work and how can dads apply it?

Oh my goodness.

So as we talked about earlier, my introduction to understanding personalities and I just found

this so powerful because it gave me Jonathan a deeper insight to my kids.

So there's plenty of parenting strategies out there, but what works for one child is not

necessarily going to work for the other.

So using the understanding of the disc model and the personality dynamics, I put together

a program as we all know, our kids don't come with manuals, but I say you can develop a

parenting blueprint based on the temperaments of your child.

And so I just dug deeper into helping parents learn more about the personality dynamics,

not between the adult child, but even the whole family, all the different personality

dynamics in the family.

And look at the strengths that we have in our relationship, the compatibility that we have,

the struggles that we may have in our relationship because of our differences and diversity of our

personalities.

And then put together the most effective strategies.

It's not a one-size-fits-all approach to be able to parent our children according to their

design.

And if you have more than one child, I know you do and I do too.

Each one of them needed me in a different way.

My son Kyle, as I talked about before, he's very strong willed, he's more of the dominant

and cautious, he's very left brain.

I had to be very direct and very firm with him because if not, I don't think he thought

that I meant business, okay?

But if I was direct with my daughter Anna, who's much more of the supportive and cautious,

very sensitive and reserved, if I was direct with her, she would feel as though I was yelling

at her or I was upset with her.

And so I had to change my body language.

I needed to change my tone.

I needed to change the way I communicated.

And it's not that it's right or wrong, it's different.

As we mentioned before, our kids will always need us, but they will need us in a different

way.

And when we understand that they're not cookie-cutter kids, look, I gave birth to these children

and I'm looking around thinking, they came out of the same gene pool.

They're my children.

Why don't they think an act like me?

They look like me.

You know, like we are in the same house, we have the same expectations and they're all

responding differently.

What is happening here?

Because God is wired each one of them different.

They are nicked together in our womb.

God is designed that.

It's part of their DNA.

I cannot change it.

But our goal as parents is to help our children become the best they can be according to their

design.

Not try to change them or alter them, but help them become the best they can be according

to who God designed them today.

So it has been an incredible journey because there's a lot of parenting programs out.

There's a lot of parent coaches out there, but this philosophy takes families different

by using the foundation of personality assessments to put together, we put together interaction

guides and graphs and we can see the plotting points of all the different family members

and we find where the gap is.

The gap is the diversity and the differences and when parents see the gap and the differences,

it's almost as though, aha, there's nothing wrong with me or my child.

We just see life differently.

Yes, you do.

Now how do we put together strategies that we can close that gap of understanding and be

able to have better interactions and communication where that child feels seen, heard and understood

for who they are and not always trying to be changed to be who they're not?

See, I guess not even knowing I was doing this, I was expecting my kids are going to think

like me.

I gave birth to them.

Part of my gene pool.

Why was this happening?

Because there is differences and we need to, now look, our family values and morals did

not change, but it was the way we communicated when about doing that, influencing that that

needed to be different.

So how can dad apply this?

You asked that question.

Fathers are so important in the lives of our children.

Our sons will probably become like the dad and our daughters will end up marrying someone

like the dad.

I think there's many statistics that show that.

And so the role of the father in the lives of our children in the way they model their relationship

with their children, the relationship with their wife is so powerful.

It's not what we say.

It's what our kids see us do that they will remember and they will continue.

And so when dads truly understand the diversity of their kids, as you said, Jonathan, sometimes

dads will take that step back because they just don't understand how to embrace that.

This is a tool of understanding.

This opens the door for them to then nurture their child in a different way because they

are going to be different.

We have that diversity.

But when fathers can see life through a different lens, now they can lean in to build a more

positive relationship and respect and develop the diversity in their child.

You spoke earlier about how your approach to parenting is different between say your son

and your daughter.

And that reminded me very much of the concept of the image of God, the way God reacts and

deals with us from one individual to another can be very, very different because he knows

us intimately.

He knows each personality and every nuance, every difference in that personality.

So he knows exactly how to talk that to that person to be able to affect the change that

is required for their well-being.

And the one common thread and the way he deals with both in their differences is love.

Everything is done out of love and everything is, and I'll go as far as to say the word.

It is sacrificial with the best interest of each individual in mind.

And it's the same way with how you are parenting your own kids.

And that's what I saw there and I thought that was interesting.

It's unconditional love.

It's celebrating the child you had and not mourning the child you wish you had.

You know, when parents are struggling with the child who thinks and acts differently and

they're not driven to accomplish maybe the goals that the parents have done or wish their

children would do, that can be so harmful to the confidence and self-esteem of the child.

And so when parents develop their parenting blueprint and they see how their children are

wired, then we can adapt our interaction and encourage them to be the best they can be

and helping them build that confidence to achieve and go out and be independent, you know,

adults in our community and in our society, but if we are crushing their spirit because

they're not living up to our expectations, you know, I think I fell into this trap awhile

back that, you know, when my kids did well, it made me feel good.

If my kids did not do well, then it was a reflection of my parenting.

And that's, I wasn't going to let that happen, right?

And so I was driving my kids to do what, to meet my needs instead of being aware of what

their needs are and helping them just be the best that they can be.

And if I can do that, everything else falls in place.

And I also had to adapt my expectations of each one of my kids because I saw them in a

certain way, but my design wasn't, or, and goals were not necessarily what their goals were.

And so I had to go alongside them and guide them in, in their interest and the things that

they were interested in doing and, and walk with them alongside to see if something was

going to work out, rather than be critical of it to be able to explore options with them.

And not force what I felt that they should do.

Now again, I talked about having those family values and expectations that did not change,

but when our kids start developing their personalities and interest, how can I encourage them

to explore that so that they can find, hang on to this one, to understand their personality.

And so they can seek their passion and find their purpose.

And if we don't allow them that freedom to explore different options in their life, they're

not cookie cutter kids, not all kids are going to go to college, not all kids are going to

own a business, they're all not going to be doctors and lawyers, which, you know, to many

parents, that's what success looks like.

I just wanted my kids to be happy with who they are and have happy, happy lives because

they are comfortable with who they are in this world.

Karen, you're the author of My Three in Me, a journey in parenting by design.

What can readers expect when they read this and who is this book written for?

So Jonathan, I've been speaking because I've been doing what I've been doing for 20 years.

And so my husband had always encouraged me, you need to write your stories, you need to

write your stories because I would tell the stories.

And people would be asking if I had a book.

And so I finally, you know, did write this book.

And so in the book, I do give the overview of the disc model of human behavior.

So parents can have a better understanding of the different characteristics that they

will see in the personality style blends because no one is just one personality, Jonathan.

We are a blend of all four of the styles, the dominant, inspiring, supportive and cautious

to a greater or lesser degree.

That's what makes us unique.

So I open the book by giving an overview of what the disc model is all about.

And then I start telling stories of my three in me, in other words, how I was raising the

different personalities in my home.

And some of the things that parents may experience in their day to day interactions, anything

from parenting a toddler who you would ask not to do something who would look you right

in the eye and do it anyway.

Oh my goodness, what do I do with that?

Where other kids might be a little bit more passive and weak to you.

Leave the room and then touch it, right?

But then some of the challenges in school and how to build their confidence.

But with each of the stories that I share, I have an action plan.

See, as a dominant personality, I'm all about getting results.

And so I can tell stories, but I want people to learn from, from what I'm sharing with

them.

In other words, what are you going to do differently in your interaction with your students?

So you don't have all of the challenges that I had in parenting my kids.

So I'll tell stories about what I became aware of because of the personality styles and

then allow the parents to go through their action plan.

So it's done as a guide so that they can start to reflect back on some of the behaviors

that may experience with their children, what they may have done in the past, but what they

may need to do differently to reduce the conflict, increase the productivity, and maintain

that positive relationship through every season of parenting.

I absolutely love stories.

Would you please share some stories of dads or parents that you've helped?

Hmm, okay.

Well, let me start with my husband.

So Mark and I are a blended family and so we have seven children and Mark and I are both

certified in this information, but he did not become certified until he went through his

divorce and he actually felt as though he didn't know his children.

And when he went through certification, he became more aware of not only his personality,

but how he could be a better father to his kids.

He actually sold all of his businesses, Jonathan, and he came home to be a dad.

And that's when he dug into really getting to know his children.

Not just be the provider, come in and be the disciplinarian as many dads can be sometimes,

but truly start changing the diapers and preparing the meals and taking walks or going on bike

rides, like really engaging it then.

And I'll tell you, as hard as it was prior to his divorce because he was working multiple

jobs and maybe not spending as much time at home, the relationship he has with his children

today are amazing.

When I work with couples, I really love to see how the dads lean into the understanding.

We'll start with this.

Most of us, not everybody in our marriage relationship, we tend to marry our opposite

personality.

That's the case for Mark and I.

I am more of the dominant.

I like to kind of be in charge and control and I'm a little more structured and Mark is

more of a supportive.

He's kind, he's steady, he's stable and he gives the kids the past when I'm trying to keep

the rules.

And so we will marry our opposite because it fills the void that we may have in our own

style.

So, I mean, I was attracted to Mark because he was very calm and he was very patient and

I was not.

And he was attracted to me because I was more a decision maker and I got things done.

So we often say that opposite is a tract and then opposite is a tack, but that's a whole

other story.

But when I work with families, very similar to our dynamics where we have parents with different

parenting styles, can you see, I don't know if you've experienced it in your household,

but that we have different expectations of our parenting outcomes of how we're going

to approach different things.

And so when the dads do get involved and realize that they just have a different approach,

it's not right or wrong, it's just different.

We need to recognize, but who is the dad, your child needs right now?

Not that your parenting style is right or mom's parenting style is right or better, but what

does the child need?

And it changes everything because we go back to meeting the internal emotional needs of

the child and not expecting the child to meet our internal emotional needs.

And so there are many dads that I've worked with that have very different parenting styles

that knew that they needed to adapt their interactions and apply a different strategy if they wanted

to maintain a relationship with their kids.

I had one dad who was very, very laid back where the mom was a little more hyper, probably

like me, and he tended to have a wonderful relationship with the daughter when the mom would

escalate too much.

And so with that, he was modeling where sometimes through adolescence that she just needed

to let something slide and not get into all the emotion with some of the sassyness or

backtalk coming from their daughter.

He handled it differently and she was able to learn from him.

And then I had another couple whose, who the dad was wanting the kids to have more responsibility

and to be able to do more things on their own and develop their own internal leadership

style.

And the mom was more overprotective and fearful of letting go and allowing those opportunities.

And so it was within the couple dynamics being able to identify, it's not right or wrong,

it's different, but what do we agree on as a couple to be able to do this?

What I find with the fathers, and I mentioned this before of how important they are to be

engaged in the relationship is that they have more, I don't want to use power, influence,

let's use that word.

They have more influence than they realize when it comes to what they model and the way

they engage in the relationship with their children.

And once dads see that they can adapt their communication style, that they know how to engage

with their students at the different, with their children at different seasons of life,

they are developing relationships that they may never have experienced before.

Karen, how can dads learn more about your coaching or ask questions or even get your book?

Yeah, well, you know, you can go to my website, www.teachingaru.com.

You'll see a tab for the author there and a link to get the book.

The book is also on Amazon, so you could do that.

And of course, at the website, you'll find more information on the parenting blueprint and

some of the other things that I do in supporting educators in schools as well.

If you'd like to reach out to me personally, you can email me at [email protected].

You can let me know that you've listened to this particular broadcast and let me know

some of the challenges you have going on and let me see if there's anything I can do

to support you with that.

And just to make these easier, if you go to the fatherhoodchallenge.com, that's the fatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description.

I'll have all of the links that Karen mentioned posted right there for your convenience.

Karen, as we close, what is your challenge to dads listening now?

Oh, dads, lean in, lean in, get to know the heart of your child, understand their personality,

how God wired them and parent them, train them to be the best they can be according to their

design, embrace the child that God gave you and let them see who you are.

Let them understand your humility.

Sometimes we don't want our kids to see that we struggle with anything.

And there are certain personalities that are very guarded with that.

But be real with your kids.

Not necessarily the authoritative parent, authoritarian, I should say, where we're just expecting

that blind obedience from our kids.

But get to know your child, ask questions and listen, and then ask more questions and listen

some more.

I often say God gave us two years in one math we need to use them appropriately.

And with my personality style, I have to continue to remind myself of that.

But to really engage with your kids so that they know that you hear them, you see them,

and you're willing to embrace the diversity that they bring and encourage them to be the best

they can be according to their design.

Karen, your message has been a breath of fresh air for me and for my audience as well.

Thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Jonathan, thanks for having me.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned

in this program or find out more information about the Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

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