In this conversation, I talk with higher education anthropologist Susan Blum (Notre Dame) about her work on how students experience higher education. We also talk about an essay collection she recently edited called Ungrading: Why Rating Students Undermines Learning (and What To Do Instead).

0:58 - How Students Navigate and Experience School; It Ain't Pretty!
12:35 - Why Do So Many Students Play School Like a Game?
23:55 - What Makes Grading So Problematic? Can We Motivate Students Without Them?
36:43 - Ways Different Teachers (including Susan and Kevin) Have Backed Off of Grades in Their Classrooms
52:50 - How Could Teachers Start Moving Away From Grading?