Dan and Riley sit down with science fiction author Jeff VanderMeer, author of the bestselling Southern Reach trilogy, Borne, and numerous other works of weird brilliance. We discuss ecology, the power of storytelling, and what it means to have hope in a world of incomprehensible horror.

Then, we have (let's be honest, Dan has) soundtracked a reading from Jeff's new book, Hummingbird Salamander. Check it out!

When you're done, don't forget that this episode and a lot more fun ones like it could be found on www.patreon.com/dabottlemen