Unobtainium Podcast

What is a Black Hole?

• Core Definition: A black hole is a region of space with an extraordinarily powerful gravitational field created when massive amounts of matter are packed into a tiny volume.
• The "Divide-by-Zero" Error: In simple terms, a black hole represents a point where our current understanding of physics breaks down—a mathematical singularity where space-time equations result in an undefined state.
• Event Horizon: The absolute point of no return. Gravity is so strong within the event horizon that not even light can escape, causing its trajectory to loop back inward.

Star Collapse & Supernovas

• Stellar Evolution: Stars roughly 10 times more massive than our Sun fuse elements up the periodic table (hydrogen to helium, carbon, oxygen, etc.) until they reach iron.
• Supernova Collapse: Once iron is reached, nuclear fusion stops providing outward pressure. The star's outer layers collapse inward onto the core in a fraction of a second, bouncing off and causing a catastrophic supernova explosion.
• Core Remnant: If the remaining core mass is sufficient, it continues to crush down into a super-dense object just a few kilometers across, forming a stellar-mass black hole.

Anti-Gravity Fields

• In-Movie Use: Dr. Reinhardt uses an anti-gravity energy reactor to keep the Cygnus suspended near the event horizon and to provide artificial Earth gravity aboard the ship.
• Real World Physics: Repulsive gravity does not exist in real physics. Unlike electromagnetism (which has positive and negative poles that can attract or repel), gravity is strictly an attractive, one-way force between masses.

Einstein-Rosen Bridges & Wormholes

• In-Movie Use: The characters discuss an Einstein-Rosen bridge as a pathway through the black hole to travel across space and time.
• Real World Physics: Theoretically, an Einstein-Rosen bridge connects a black hole to a hypothetical "white hole" (a region that strictly expels matter). However, there is zero observational evidence that white holes or traversable wormholes exist in nature.

Tidal Forces & "Spaghettification"

• Tidal Gravitational Pull: Gravitational pull weakens over distance. Near a small black hole, the gravitational pull on an astronaut's feet would be exponentially stronger than on their head.
• Spaghettification: This extreme difference in force stretches objects vertically and compresses them horizontally.
• Size Matters: Counterintuitively, smaller black holes cause harsher, instant fatal tidal forces outside the event horizon. A black hole would need to be supermassive (tens of thousands of solar masses) for a human to pass through the event horizon without being immediately torn apart.

So Many Weird Elements

• Flaming Meteors: During the film's climax, flaming meteorites chase characters through the ship’s interior corridors—an impossibility in space, where there is no oxygen to support an open flame.
• Glass Spaceships & Structural Inconsistencies: The hosts point out the absurd design choice of building a deep-space ship out of glass, as well as inconsistent physics during hull breaches and vacuum exposures.

Cinematic Era Transition

• Gothic Space Horror: The film functions as a classic gothic horror story (haunted house, mad scientist, isolated environment) transposed into a space setting with a grand, dramatic score by James Bond composer John Barry.
• The Post-2001 Shift: Released in 1979, The Black Hole suffered critically because audience expectations had changed following 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968), Star Wars (1977), and Alien (1979), which presented either realistic physics or grounded world-building.
• Unfinished Script & The Bizarre Ending: Due to an incomplete script during production, the filmmakers left the ending open to post-production interpretation. This resulted in a surreal "lava lamp" climax where the villains merge and descend into a literal Dante’s Inferno-style hell, while the ship sails toward an ethereal light.

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Episode Description

In this episode of Unobtainium, hosts Adam and Amy sit down with UCLA Planetary Science Professor Dave Paige to dissect the science behind Ridley Scott's blockbuster film The Martian. From the atmospheric physics of Martian dust storms to the realities of growing potatoes in extraterrestrial soil, Professor Paige breaks down what Hollywood got right, what they exaggerated, and what real NASA missions face when exploring the Red Planet.

Full Summary

Why couldn’t the movie’s massive Martian dust storm really happen? Could you actually grow potatoes in Martian soil? How cold is Mars? Is there liquid water beneath the surface? Could microbial life exist there today? How realistic are NASA and JPL’s response to Mark Watney’s predicament? And what would it actually take to keep human beings alive on a journey to Mars? But the conversation ultimately raises a bigger question: Should humans be going to Mars at all?

Paige makes the case that increasingly capable robots may be able to explore Mars more safely, cheaply and extensively than astronauts—without risking human lives or contaminating a planet that could harbor indigenous life. That leads to the most consequential scientific question of all: Is there life on Mars, and how far should we go to find it?

Along the way, the conversation explores:

• Mars Environment & Atmospheric Physics: Mars has an atmospheric pressure less than $1/100^{\text{th}}$ that of Earth, composed primarily of carbon dioxide. While daytime temperatures at equatorial regions can approach room temperature, nighttime temperatures drop far below any location in Antarctica.
• The Dust Storm Exaggeration: The film's inciting incident—a severe dust storm that forces mission abort—is pure science fiction. Although wind speeds on Mars can be fast, the atmospheric density is so low that high-speed winds exert only a mild breeze's force, insufficient to knock down an astronaut or damage heavy equipment.
• NASA Technical Realism & JPL Representation: The movie accurately depicts the collaborative dynamic of NASA ground control, technical trade-offs, and internal management at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL). However, the premise that Mark Watney lost all communication due to a single broken antenna is unrealistic given standard NASA multi-redundant communication systems.
• Farming Potatoes in Martian Regolith: Martian soil contains oxidizing perchlorates, but experiments with sterile lunar soil prove plants can grow in extraterrestrial dirt when supplemented with nutrients. Applying raw human waste directly to root vegetables introduces severe pathogen risks; real missions would use waste digesters.
• Geology, Water, and Seismic Activity: Mars features massive subsurface ice sheets past $45^\circ$ latitude, ancient riverbeds, dry lake beds, and Olympus Mons—the solar system's largest volcano. Data from the InSight mission confirmed active "Marsquakes," demonstrating the planet remains geologically active.
• Robotic Exploration vs. Crewed Missions: While human exploration provides a compelling narrative, human crew vehicles require massive weight, artificial gravity systems, and extensive life support. Autonomous and semi-autonomous robotic rovers offer a far safer, more cost-effective, and scientifically precise method for exploring Mars.

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Why does the museum look like a spaceship? What does Luke Skywalker have in common with a scientist? And could an N-1 Starfighter actually fly?

Come inside with us.

What’s really inside George Lucas’s new Lucas Museum of Narrative Art? We got a sneak peek—and it wasn’t quite what we expected.

UNOBTAINIUM hosts planetary scientist Dr. Amy Mainzer and writer/producer Adam Sigel head inside the spectacular new Los Angeles museum expecting plenty of Star Wars. And yes, there are spaceships, droids and enough Death Star vibes to keep two lifelong fans happy. But Star Wars represents only a small part of what Lucas is trying to do here.

The museum is really an exploration of narrative art: the images societies have used to tell stories. These are the stories that people need to come to understand who they are,  from ancient cave paintings and mythology to illustration, comics, movie posters and science fiction. That leads Amy and Adam straight to Joseph Campbell, the Hero’s Journey and the Power of Myth—ideas that profoundly influenced George Lucas and the creation of Star Wars.

And then things get very UNOBTAINIUM.

Amy makes a surprising connection between the Hero’s Journey and the scientific process itself: leaving what we know, venturing into the unknown, facing uncertainty, gaining new knowledge and bringing it home.

Along the way, we explore the museum’s spaceship-like architecture, its unusual argument about “high” and “low” art, the science behind Star Wars technology—and an N-1 Starfighter that raises the inevitable question: how much energy would it actually take to make that thing fly?

Come with us for a sneak peek inside the Lucas Museum—and a journey through Star Wars, science, mythology and the stories human beings use to understand the universe and ourselves.

UNOBTAINIUM: Where great movies meet real science.

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What superhero would Neil deGrasse Tyson be? Where would he go if he could travel through time? And how much bad science will he forgive if a movie tells a great story? And how he grew up an athlete who lived in the geekosphere.

In this special bonus mini-episode of UNOBTAINIUM, planetary scientist Dr. Amy Mainzer and producer Adam Sigel revisit their conversation with Neil deGrasse Tyson for a wide-ranging trip through science, science fiction and geek culture.

Neil reveals why he once imagined himself as “Protector of the Geeks,” explains why the Marvel Universe has a scientific edge over other superhero worlds, and shares his personal rule for giving filmmakers a “hall pass” when the physics isn't quite right.

Along the way, we get Neil’s takes on the scientifically impossible storm that launches The Martian, why we happily accept the flux capacitor in Back to the Future, whether real physics could make time travel possible, why he'd rather visit the future than the past, and which ideas might someday let us cross the enormous distances between the stars.

Plus: faster-than-light travel, cryosleep, alien civilizations, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Comic-Con, superheroes, atomic wedgies, and the Revenge of the Nerds.

If you enjoyed this conversation, check out our full episode with Neil deGrasse Tyson on STAR WARS, the Force, and the science behind a galaxy far, far away.

UNOBTAINIUM explores the real science behind the movies and television we love, with scientists, filmmakers and other extraordinary guests.

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Episode Description

Could humans really breathe liquid? Could we actually live hundreds of meters beneath the ocean—and what might be waiting for us in the unexplored deep?

 In this episode of UNOBTAINIUM, hosts Amy and Adam “dive” into the science behind James Cameron’s 1989 sci-fi classic THE ABYSS with Dr. Tina Treude, UCLA professor and expert in marine geomicrobiology.

The biggest mystery of all is how much of the deep ocean have we actually explored. Scientists continue to encounter species they’ve never seen before, reminding us that some of the most alien environments we know of are right here on Earth. James Cameron imagined an alien world at the bottom of our own ocean. The remarkable thing is how alien the real one already is.

Hosts Dr. Amy Mainzer and Adam Sigel welcome guest Dr. Tina Treude, a UCLA professor of marine geomicrobiology. They analyze James Cameron's 1989 sci-fi film The Abyss, noting its accurate depiction of deep-sea pressure dynamics.

• Gas Solubility & The Bends: Under high pressure, gases like nitrogen dissolve faster into a diver's bloodstream. Rapid ascents cause dissolved nitrogen to form gas bubbles, causing decompression sickness ("the bends"), which can block nervous system connections and prove fatal.
• Decompression Protocols: To avoid decompression sickness, technical divers entering high-pressure environments must undergo controlled decompression in chambers—often lasting days or weeks—to allow nitrogen to slowly diffuse out of the body.

2. The Science of Liquid Breathing

The famous scene where a rat breathes oxygenated fluorocarbon fluid reflects real scientific experiments.

• Mechanism & Benefits: Breathing oxygenated fluorocarbon emulsion prevents lung collapse at extreme depths because liquids are incompressible under pressure.
• The Physical Limitation: While fluorocarbons can deliver adequate oxygen to the lungs, human respiration with liquids is bottlenecked by fluid viscosity and CO2 removal. Moving dense fluid in and out of the lungs requires tremendous physical effort, making long-term human fluid breathing impractical due to CO2 retention.

3. High-Pressure Effects & Saturation Diving

• Nitrogen Narcosis: Diverging from decompression sickness, nitrogen narcosis occurs at depths typically below 40 meters (120 feet), where nitrogen exerts an intoxicating, narcotic effect on neural synapses.
• Ambient Pressure Habitats: The underwater station depicted in The Abyss operates at ambient sea pressure. Divers can enter and exit through an open moon pool without immediate pressure changes because the internal gas pressure matches the external water pressure.
• Submersibles & ROVs: Dr. Treude notes that while human industrial diving peaked around 300 to 500 meters, modern deep-sea research relies heavily on Remotely Operated Vehicles (ROVs) to mitigate safety risks.

4. Marine Biology & Deep-Sea Ecosystems

• Oxygen Limits in Deep Waters: Dissolved oxygen levels in seawater are roughly 40 times lower than in air. Marine life compensates with high-surface-area external gills and continuous water flow rather than internal lungs.
• Bioluminescence: Deep-ocean organisms generate light through enzymatic reactions or bacterial endosymbiosis for communication, hunting (e.g., anglerfish lures), and camouflage.
• Chemosynthesis & Extremophiles: Geothermal heat at hydrothermal vents can support unique microbial life, highlighting ecosystems that thrive entirely independent of surface sunlight.

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What does it take to build a robot that can explore another world—and maybe even help us find extraterrestrial life?

In this special bonus mini-episode of UNOBTAINIUM, roboticist Dr. Hiro Ono takes us from the surface of Mars to the hidden ocean of Enceladus, Saturn’s icy moon.

Hiro, who joined us for our episode on BLADE RUNNER and the future of robotics, worked on the Mars Perseverance rover, helping develop autonomous vision systems that allow a robot millions of miles from Earth to understand its surroundings and navigate the Martian landscape. With signals between Earth and Mars taking minutes to arrive, a rover can't simply wait for a human to tell it what to do—it needs some ability to perceive, decide and act for itself. Then we travel much farther out.

Hiro explains the thinking behind EELS (Exobiology Extant Life Surveyor), a snake-like robot designed to tackle one of the wildest challenges in planetary exploration: navigating the cracks in the icy crust of Enceladus, where scientists believe a vast liquid-water ocean lies beneath the surface. Could an adaptable robot someday follow those pathways beneath the ice—and search an alien ocean for signs of life? It’s a fascinating look at AI, machine vision, autonomous robots, Mars exploration, astrobiology, Enceladus and the engineering we may need to explore some of the most promising places for life beyond Earth.

And if you enjoy Hiro here, check out our full BLADE RUNNER episode, where we explore how close today's robots and artificial intelligence are getting to the science fiction imagined on screen.

Subscribe to UNOBTAINIUM for more conversations about the surprising science behind the movies and TV we love.

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Is the "Rage Virus" in 28 Days Later scientifically plausible? Amy and Adam sit down with Dr. Sima Yasmin—medical doctor, former CDC Epidemic Intelligence Service officer, author and disease detective! – to separate the real science of viruses and pandemics from one of cinema’s most frightening fictional outbreaks. What exactly is a virus—and is it even alive? Could scientists really use a virus to alter human behavior? Why are viruses used as vectors in cutting-edge gene therapies (like CAR-T cancer therapy)? They also discuss incubation periods, the math of R-naught, split-brain Klüver-Bucy syndrome, and how real is the "Rage Virus" in Danny Boyle and Alex Garland's classic 2002 film 28 Days Later.

Full Summary

Hosts Dr. Amy Mainzer (UCLA planetary scientist) and Adam Sigel (Hollywood writer/producer) welcome guest Dr. Sima Yasmin, a medical doctor and former CDC Epidemic Intelligence Officer.

• Are Viruses Alive? Dr. Yasmin explains that viruses are non-living packages of genetic material (DNA or RNA) enclosed in a protein capsid. They cannot replicate independently and must hijack host cellular machinery to reproduce.
• Viral DNA in Humans: Estimates suggest that 10% to 12% of the human genome is viral in origin. Over millions of years, ancestral viral infections integrated permanently into human DNA.

2. Viral Vectors: Science vs. Cinematic Tropes

In 28 Days Later, scientists at a Cambridge laboratory use an Ebola-based viral vector to alter primate behavior.

• Real-World Viral Vectors: Humans have used viruses as delivery mechanisms since 1972. In modern medicine (such as CAR-T cancer therapy), harmless viruses (like Adeno-Associated Viruses or AAVs) are modified to carry therapeutic genes into human cells to train the immune system against cancer.
• Movie vs. Reality: In real life, medical researchers use non-pathogenic viruses as vectors rather than lethal filoviruses like Ebola. Furthermore, while Ebola in movies is depicted as causing external bleeding from every orifice, real-world Ebola primarily kills through extreme dehydration and electrolyte disruption.

3. Incubation Periods and R-Naught

• 10-Second Incubation: The film features a hyper-fast incubation period of 10 to 20 seconds. Dr. Yasmin notes this is scientifically unrealistic. Even rabies—the closest real-world equivalent to a "rage" virus—has an incubation period ranging from 3 to 8 weeks (or up to years), depending on how close the bite site is to the central nervous system.
• The Math of R-naught: The basic reproduction number (R-naught) represents the average number of secondary infections caused by one infected individual in a susceptible population. While measles has an R-naught of 12–18 due to airborne transmission, the fictional Rage Virus would have an extraordinarily high R-naught because infected hosts actively seek out others to attack.

4. Neuroscience, the Amygdala, and Human Empathy

• The Amygdala & Klüver-Bucy Syndrome: The scientists in the movie attempt to suppress rage by targeting the brain. Historically, removing the amygdala in primates rendered them docile and fearless. This study would lead to the understanding of Klüver-Bucy syndrome,  
• Societal Reflections: The hosts note that the film uses a viral outbreak as a lens to explore deeper human flaws. While societal collapse is triggered by a laboratory experiment, the ultimate threats to the survivors stem from human violence, power dynamics, and a lack of empathy. Ultimately, the narrative shows that human connection and community remain the primary forces for survival.

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Episode Description

What begins as a discussion of climate change expands into a deep dive into the science as well as the misinformation, political inertia, corruption and the psychology behind why societies struggle to respond to existential threats—even when the evidence is clear.

McKay discusses the real-world inspiration for the film, Leonardo DiCaprio's performance, and why science and storytelling must work together if humanity hopes to solve its greatest challenges.

Full Summary

The Holocene Epoch & The Greenhouse Effect

Host Dr. Amy Mainzer (UCLA astrophysicist) and director Adam McKay open with a discussion on the fundamental stability of Earth's climate over the past 12,000 years (the Holocene epoch). This stable climate enabled the rise of organized human agriculture.

• The Physics of Greenhouse Gases: Amy emphasizes that climate change physics is rooted in standard quantum mechanics. Molecules of greenhouse gases like CO2 absorb specific infrared light wavelengths emitted by the Earth, increasing molecular motion which manifests as trapped thermal energy.
• Earth Energy Imbalance (EEI): McKay highlights the extreme rate of trapped energy entering the biosphere—equivalent to the energy of roughly 12 Hiroshima bombs per second—moving the global climate past normal seasonal variations at an unprecedented pace.

Science vs. Political Inaction & Media Gaslighting

McKay shares his experiences speaking with scientists, politicians, and media professionals. Despite unequivocal empirical data, political structures and profit-driven media ecosystems frequently downplay or miscommunicate existential threats.

• Scientific Communication Dilemma: Scientists often struggle to convey urgent warnings without being labeled as alarmist or shut out of public discourse.
• Evolutionary Blindspots: Humans are evolutionarily hardwired to react to immediate, visible threats (e.g., an approaching predator) rather than invisible or complex systemic crises (e.g., viruses, greenhouse gas accumulation, or distant space objects).

Behind the Scenes: The Leonardo DiCaprio "Network" Speech

The hosts discuss the key scene where Dr. Randall Mindy (played by Leonardo DiCaprio) breaks down on live television.

• Tension Between Data and Incentives: DiCaprio advocated for a dramatic, classic "network speech" to capture a scientist's raw emotion when empirical data clashes with corporate greed, political complacency, and media circus tactics.
• Loyalty to Science: The narrative underscores that while individual scientists have human flaws, the scientific process itself relies on peer review and observed reality, standing firm against corporate gaslighting.

Oligarchs, Geoengineering, and the "Nugget of Hope"

• Interference in Deflection Missions: In Don't Look Up, humanity's initial, viable plan to divert the comet using space shuttles is subverted by a billionaire tech mogul seeking to mine the object for valuable minerals, which mirrors real world influence by powerful billionaires on the public.
• The Power of Science: Despite the film's apocalyptic climax, Amy and McKay identify a core message of persistence: scientific solutions exist to mitigate existential threats, provided public interest and rigorous peer review take precedence over short-term financial interests.

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Episode Description

How do long-period comets (like Comet NEOWISE) actually move, how NASA’s real-life Planetary Defense Coordination Office operates, and whether kinetic impactors (like the DART mission) or nuclear explosives could divert a planet-killing object? They also dive into why the film serves as a sharp allegory for climate change, pandemic responses, corporate greed, and the politicization of science.

Full Summary

Amy Mainzer (UCLA astrophysicist and science advisor on Don't Look Up) and Adam Sigel (Hollywood writer/producer) welcome writer/director Adam McKay to discuss balancing scientific accuracy with storytelling, and why making Don't Look Up required close collaboration between filmmakers and scientists. In reality, detecting and diverting a long-period comet would take roughly five years (and likely longer) to save humanity from the impact. This is the time needed for design reviews, international management, and spacecraft development. However, cinematic pacing demanded a condensed, high-stakes timeline.

Asteroids, Comets and NASA's Planetary Defense

• Orbital Mechanics: To fit the film's timeline realistically, Dr. Mainzer modeled the fictional threat after long-period comets coming from the outer solar system (similar to Comet NEOWISE, discovered in 2020). These objects approach the Sun rapidly on their first appearance, limiting advance warning.
• NASA’s Real Planetary Defense: The film’s "Oglethorpe" character reflects NASA’s actual Planetary Defense Coordination Office, which coordinates with international space agencies and emergency response networks (like FEMA) to track potential threats and plan mitigation strategies.
• Kinetic Impactors (The DART Mission): Kinetic redirection—knocking an object off-course by crashing a spacecraft into it. NASA successfully demonstrated this with the DART (Double Asteroid Redirection Test) mission, altering an asteroid’s orbital speed. However, kinetic impactors require years of lead time to successfully nudge an object away from Earth.

Fictional Solutions vs. Geoengineering Risks

In Don't Look Up, the government abandons kinetic deflection to attempt a dangerous mining operation using "micro-targeted quantum fission explosives" and autonomous drones.

• Nuclear Explosions & Shotgun Blasts: Attempting to blow up a comet near Earth risks turning a single large impactor into a cluster of radioactive fragments.
• Parallels to Geoengineering: This reckless high-tech fix mirrors real-world geoengineering proposals (like solar radiation management via atmospheric particle injection to alter planetary albedo). Such unproven, large-scale intervention carries immense systemic risk and unpredictable consequences as the film bares out.

Allegory, Corruption, and Human Behavior

• Politicization & Incentives: The conversation addresses how scientific consensus gets derailed by political interests, corporate lobbying, and social media manipulation. McKay highlights how careerism and financial incentives blind political and media classes to existential threats.
• Hyperbolic Discounting: The economic concept of humanity's tendency to prioritize immediate, short-term rewards while ignoring long-term risks.
• The Role of Art: They conclude that while science delivers inconvenient truths, art and satire provide the necessary emotional outlets for society to process existential dread and translate fear into systemic action.

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