Joel and Travis discuss the strange (and annoying to some) method of teaching virtue that both Jesus and Socrates seem to use. The goal? To discover their methods for teaching virtue, and specifically to see how these methods are not as direct as we would like virtue-teaching to be. Rather than starting by telling people they are terrible and need to be better, both often seem to use methods that make their interlocutors show themselves to have failed morally and epistemologically. Do we need to adapt how we teach today, particularly in the Church? Are we teaching like sophists, or like Jesus?