Upsample with Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff

Late payments to artists this summer have reopened the East Coast Music Association (ECMA) situation. We go back through this story and its mix of joloew, ticket levy, co-op, Fort Langley, and Coastalgate vibes. What is a mission-driven artist organization meant to do, and how far from that are our current institutions? Stick around for that and for Will's nagging desire to say "ECMEA" by mistake, due to the British Columbia music education thing called BCMEA. Plus, double recommendations!

(0:00) Intro

(1:03) Soccer vs. jazzfest

(6:22) How many shows did Will go to?

(7:41) East Coast Music Awards payments

(12:39) ECMA CEO controversy

(43:04) Blanche's Atlantic Dividend proposal

(50:00) Will is nominated at BreakOut West?

(51:40) Recommendations

Recs:

Will -

souvenir by Knitting

Singin' to an Empty Chair by Ratboys

Carson -

in this body by Sparklmami

Momoko by Momoko Gill

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Berklee students want the school to cut it out with AI music courses, but it's looking bleak. The same venture capital interests that brought us the CEO of Suno saying no one enjoys making music, have a friend who is installed as Berklee's president. Per a recent Adam Neely video, both the student experience and the school's prestige are at risk.

In the second annual Upsample summer special together at Carson's house, we also bring up a related controversy at our own alma mater, go through our recs from the year to-date, and look at the upcoming Vancouver International Jazz Festival lineup.

(0:00) Intro

(2:23) We're talkin' Berklee

(4:48) Berklee AI course

(21:24) Suno/Spotify/Berklee ties

(40:24) CapU jazz AI poster conflict

(44:28) Ableton Extensions SDK

(48:52) Recommendations review

(53:52) 2026 jazzfest

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

The future of getting paid for our songs rests on blockchain vs. bureaucracy, as Will reports back on Australian musician Jo Loewenthal's 19-part "deep forensic investigation" of global publishing. We also touch on the launch of Subvert after opening with a dismissal of the year's biggest Upsample-core story.

(0:00) We're skipping Pysop Geese-gate

(2:35) Subvert launched

(8:55) The joloew publishing investigation

(32:17) Joel Gouveia covers the same story

(39:16) Blockchain?

(53:08) Recommendations

Recs:

• Will - watch Living for the City hosted by Hanif Abdurraqib, keeping in mind that Live Nation is producing it
• Carson - listen to My New Band Believe

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Evan Dungate of Gigpit joins us!

Gigpit, headquartered in Victoria and also running in Vancouver, is a new local live music platform that offers concert listings and a ticketing service, currently with no fees. The company has five young co-founders: Evan, Aidan Polglase, Ellie Scott, Josh Taylor, and MacKenzie Joyal. Will and Carson get a feel for their work and take a detour in the middle to discuss the Live Nation / Ticketmaster U.S. DOJ case.

(0:00) Let's get our $200k!

(1:46) Evan's background

(7:21) The Gigpit team

(10:33) Ticketing & no-fee PWYC model

(20:21) Live Nation found liable by jury

(27:15) Ticketweb & stealth subsidiaries

(31:59) Handling the pressure to grow

(34:51) How to win a presenter?

(38:48) Writing & video sessions

(44:15) How to get involved with Gigpit

(49:18) The Shaggy story

(50:46) Recommendations with Evan

Recs:

• Evan - Standard Issue Pleasure Model - Tripsitter | Christopher Atkins - Another Year | Hedonist - Scapulimancy
• Will - check out Infinite Catalog’s breakdown of Spotify’s Loud & Clear PR stats
• Carson - Charlotte Cornfield - Hurts Like Hell

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

(0:00) Toronto Blue Jays opening day

(2:31) Will's physical media level-up

(4:59) OpenAI shuts down Sora

(17:35) Spotify Artist Profile Protection

(30:29) Jasmine Sun on AI and creative writing

(50:44) Triple recommendations

Carson recs:

• Gregory Uhlmann - Extra Stars,
• Photokem - A Mat in the Garden,
• kJADE - On Everything I Love.

Will recs:

• Tomeka Reid Quartet - dance! skip! Hop!,
• Marquis Hill - (Beautifulism) Sweet Surrender,
• smush - standards EP.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

let's talk about fully automated slopitalism and the threats to performance rights organizations & songwriters

No episode 2 weeks from now (Mar. 13), we return later in March.

(0:00) Music MCP (which got taken down)

(8:40) SOCAN's AI policies & advocacy

(36:23) "Pre-deplatformed" cool content

(50:27) Dave King of The Bad Plus' rant

(54:54) Recommendations

1. Darren Hemmings linking to Music MCP at Network Notes
2. SOCAN "Stop Unlicensed AI Training" petition
3. Ryan Broderick's story at Garbage Day: "The only taboo left is copyright infringement: the future of media is pre-deplatformed"
4. Nate Chinen's interview at The Gig with Dave King and Reid Anderson of The Bad Plus

Recs: Will - watch Sun Ra: Do The Impossible on PBS (if you can) and listen to the music of Sun Ra and his Arkestra,

Carson - listen to The Call by Bellbird

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

"Move fast and break... Kings!" That's what Cory Doctorow calls for in his recent talk. We discuss a potential "post-American internet" future per that talk, then we weave in two related stories: Anna's Archive scraping virtually all of Spotify for torrenting, and Pitchfork launching a paywall.

No episode 2 weeks from now (Feb. 13), we return later in February.

(0:00) Intro

(2:15) Cory Doctorow talk

(38:35) Anna's Archive scrapes Spotify

(53:17) Pitchfork paywall

(1:02:17) Recommendations

Legal complaint against Anna's Archive here.

Recs: Will - listen to Catalog Club podcast series by Steven Hyden at Evil Speakers on Substack, which covered Lucinda Williams in January.

Carson - read Richard Powers novels, including The Echo Maker which Carson gave to Will.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

It's Year 2 of Upsample starting now, and the leading AI music company Suno has already intruded into Will's day-to-day in the local scene. What else is in store?

(0:00) Intro & Self-Taught Legend

(4:27) Hooks by Suno

(12:50) Suno Partner Program

(32:06) Bandcamp wants to ban AI music

(45:35) Recommendations

Recs: Will - listen to Julian Lage: "Opal", "Talking Drum", and "Night Shade" 3 singles from album Scenes from Above coming next week on Blue Note with John Medeski, Jorge Roeder, & Kenny Wollesen.

Carson - listen to Blizzard by Dove Ellis.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

3 days after we published the Side Door episode, a tragic incident injured a loved one of someone from the Side Door community. There's a GoFundMe that the community organized to support them through the hospitalization and recovery.

We're back at Carson's house to discuss a book that has influenced our show's entire first year: Filterworld by Kyle Chayka. Stick around for when we look back at all our recommendations across the first 25 episodes and highlight some of them. See you in 2026!

(0:00) Upsample Wrapped

(11:24) Filterworld

(57:27) Recommendations we made in 2025

(1:08:54) Seasonal wishes & outro

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

After we rage against Spotify Wrapped and follow up on our previous episodes, Carson unpacks three recent stories related by the theme of AI blowback: a maximally high-effort and human album, an anti-AI revival of Vine, and a platform that might get enshittified by its buyer.

(0:00) Intro

(4:11) Does Will do year-end lists?

(5:57) Canada Music Fund $16 million top-up update

(7:42) Side Door correction & updates

(11:38) AI blowback?

(16:59) Lux by Rosalía

(31:34) Jack Dorsey-backed DiVine: bring back Vine?

(53:50) Spotify acquires WhoSampled

(1:03:41) Recommendations

Recs: Will - listen to Strays by Way Ahead Trio, Carson - listen to What of Our Nature by Haley Heynderickx & Max García Conover

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.