In this episode, we discuss the realities of COVID-19 and other diseases on our health and well being - and how vaccines have both saved us from the grim realities, and led us to forget just how bad diseases can get without vaccines to keep them at bay.

My guest is Meredith Wadman, senior reporter with Science Magazine in Washington, D.C., and author of The Vaccine Race: Science, Politics, and the Human Costs of Defeating Disease.