October 07, 2019

Watchmen Issue #9, “The Darkness of Mere Being”

38 minutes

Remember this one? Laurie heads to Mars with Dr. Manhattan to debate the future of the human race, and in the process puts together some shocking truths about her past. We’re getting close to the end here as our Watchmen podcast breaks down Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ issue #9, “The Darkness of Mere Being.”

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The theme music for Watchmen Watch was written and performed by Jeff Solomon.

Plus, here’s a transcript of the episode for you to read through as you listen:

Alex: Welcome

to Watchman Watch, a podcast about Watchman, where we’re watching you. You’re

watching us, but who is watching the steering wheel? I’m Alex.

Justin: I’m

Justin.

Pete: I’m

Pete.

Alex: And

we are going to be talking about chapter nine of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’

Watchman, The Darkness of Mere Being, as we get closer and closer to the

premiere of Watchman on HBO. Before we get into that though, Justin, where’s

our fourth co-host? What’s going on here?

Justin: I

mean, I sort of feel like I’m Alan’s keeper but I’m not okay. I’m just who he

texts. But Alan Moore obviously is our fourth host. I’m his keeper. And

unfortunately, he’s embroiled. He was on the phone call between Trump and the

Ukrainian president. So, he’s been looped in and subpoenaed and testifying

before a congressional panel.

Alex: Got

you. Now, we should probably mention that we tape these episodes a little bit

in advance. So, whatever we’re talking about right now, this is a week down the

road. So, most likely we’re in a different world. Canada has annexed the United

States. Mexico is at war with us. Probably a lot of things have changed. So,

not completely valid.

Alex: Another

thing that’s actually changed in the world is the first episode of Watchman, by

the time you’re listening to this episode, it’s already been out there. It’s

premiered at New York Comic Con. People, including potentially some of us, have

seen it already. So, we will be talking-

Justin: Potentially,

some of us.

Alex: Potentially.

Pete: Are

you saying you’ve seen it?

Alex: No.

I’m trying to explain in timeline terms. We tape this a week before but we’d

taped it 35 minutes ago. Right. You get that, you understand? Yeah.

Justin: Alex,

I don’t know if you know, but all of time is simultaneous. It’s just small

minded humans who can’t look at more than one edge of the crystal.

Alex: Right.

So we’re taping this episode, but also we’ve already seen the first episode of

Watchman, but we’re not talking about it yet because it hasn’t happened yet. So

there you go.

Pete: Cool.

Way to clear that up.

Alex: Yeah,

no problem bro. Speaking of which, let’s get into a pretty straight forward

issue of a pretty straight forward comic. Now the main thing that you need to

do at this point is that Doctor Manhattan has taken Laurie to Mars. We saw that

happen at the end of the last issue. In order to have a conversation with her

about potentially saving the entire world. And when we say saving the entire

world, there’s two things going on there. The one that we’re not really

concerned about with this issue though we are in the background, is the mystery

of what’s going on. Who this mask killer that Rorschach thinks is on the loose

is. We’re much more concerned with the nuclear annihilation that is very

quickly coming towards earth as tensions ramp up between Russia and the United

States as they invade Afghanistan.

Alex: So

that’s the setup here. Jumping right actually into the beginning of this

because I thought this was so fascinating this first page we’ve got a

flashback, but from Doctor Manhattan’s perspective and I thought that was such

an interesting choice to start off the issue. Why do you think that first page

shows us information that we’ve seen before?

Justin: Well,

I think it through the rereading this issue for the first time in a long time,

it makes me realize that Doctor Manhattan is a unreliable narrator or an

unreliable God character in this. He claims to be all powerful. He claims to

see things a certain way and he claims to not have human emotions anymore. But

really he’s not. I think he actually is feeling emotions intensely and I think

it does latch onto certain events that he goes back to and have affected him in

a large way. And I think that’s why we’re starting here.

Pete: Yeah.

Also like this is the first time I’ve been a little bit like, “Okay, we

get it with the imagery.” I think that at this point they keeps showing

things over and over again and it’s at this point it’s a little, I’m like,

“All right.”

Alex: You

think they got to calm down a little bit. Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons, what’s the

big deal? That’s what you’re saying.

Pete: Well,

I’m just saying not, I’m not like that. I’m not saying that. I’m just saying

that we’re falling into a pattern of a big image kind of starting things. And

then it again and it’s important, then it goes away and it comes back and it’s

like, “Okay.” I kind of get it as a storytelling the way that we’re

kind of going at things.

Alex: I

don’t want to ruin anything for you too much, Pete, but there’s three more

issues and I can guarantee you that’s going to happen at least three more

times.

Justin: Wow.

Now who’s seeing the future?

Alex: Right.

I mean, listen, at this point, we’re nine issues into this comic, they’re not

going to be like, “Eh, forget about a visual [inaudible 00:04:57] that we’ve

been going for.” I will say one thing that I do find kind of fascinating,

and we talked about this, I believe on the last podcast a little bit, but I am

suspicious with some of the repeated imagery, not all of the repeated imagery.

But some of the repeated imagery, that it’s more on the level of tone poem,

than a specific meaning at any point in time. The Hiroshima lovers definitely

show up at very specific instances, but something like the smiley face button,

to me, it’s almost, it’s a connective fiber that brings the issues together.

Versus a specific meaning every time it shows up. I’m probably wrong about

that. I’m sure people are going to yell at it, but I’m curious to get your

guys’ take on it.

Justin: I

mean in this issue specifically, we see the smiley face show up on the surface

of Mars. And I think that’s not even tone, that’s just a pointed reference to

the effect that The Comedian has had on all of these characters, the earth and

now the surface of Mars. Because as we learn in this issue, and I think this is

told perfectly in this, we find out that The Comedian is most likely Laurie’s

father. And the way that information is sort of teased out over the course of

the issue was so smartly done. It makes you suspicious of that idea. And then

it’s like, “Oh that can’t be.” And it’s like, “Oh wait, there’s

another little clue.”

Justin: And

then we realize it at the same time that Laurie does, like we’re having going

through the same feeling she is. And it’s just perfectly done. And I think

that’s why the smiley face at the end is so important, because that’s like the

full Epic stamp on the planet saying, “Yes he is.”

Alex: And

I guess to your point, it’s sort of like The Comedians final joke, right? Even

though his jokes aren’t funny, we’ve already established that he doesn’t

actually make jokes so much as make true statements. When Laurie finds out this

ultimate truth that Eddie Blake is in fact her father, she puts the pieces

together, brings all of our memories together. Yeah, to your point, it does

make this enormous impact on something that is ancient, as John AKA Doctor

Manhattan describes to us over the course of the entire issue.

Justin: I

mean it’s almost The Comedian’s sort of a cosmic jokester where it’s not like,

“Ha, ha.” It’s like, “Oh Whoa.” Which is not the usual

comedians way of making the audience laugh.

Pete: No,

but it is kind of very DC like Joker’s more twisted than funny. And The

Comedian is more fucked up than hilarious.

Alex: Yeah.

It’s sort of like, he’s like the Andrew Dice Clay of the universe. Like not

really funny.

Justin: Yeah.

Pete: Wow.

Wow.

Justin: Yeah,

he’s definitely the dice man. Oh that’s going to bother Pete. No, the greatest

punchline of all time is smoking a cigarette over the top of your head rather

than the normal way.

Justin: I

will also say one more thing about the smiling face. It also I think shows how

much Laurie affects Doctor Manhattan, because we’re made to think that he

created that smiley face. As Laurie reacts to all this information, I think

he’s affected by it. He makes the choice to come back to earth, presumably

based on their time together on Mars. And maybe subconsciously he put that

large smiley face right on the surface as a response or a an echo of her

feelings.

Alex: Yeah.

To give you those of you listening, the overview of the issue. I think part of

the reason we’re bouncing around so much is it’s pretty much just one long

conversation between Laurie and Doctor Manhattan. And then the other half of

the issue is it’s interspersed with flashbacks throughout Laurie’s life. This

is very much the issue focused on her. Even though we are focused on a

relationship with Doctor Manhattan at the same time. And we get to see first

experiences as a superhero interacting with the older superheroes, if you could

even call them superheroes. They’re not really super heroes. Interacting with

comedian, confronting him when she’s older and then ultimately, as you

mentioned, Justin, getting Doctor Manhattan around to make this choice.

Alex: But

it’s also a conversation between predestination versus choice. What governs our

lives? Are we just marching through our fate? Is everything determined in

advance or can we actually make choices about things? And I would say this

issue falls on the side of choice based on the fact that the most

self-professed predetermined character, Doctor Manhattan ultimately does make a

choice.

Justin: Well,

he makes it, you don’t see him make the choice. You just see that he’s not…

it’s like a flip switch that’s like a light turning on. He’s like, “I’m

not going to earth for all these reasons.” And he’s like, “I’m going

to earth for these other reasons.” So I don’t know. I to me the freewill

thing is more of, once you smashed something, can you put it back together? The

snow globe, the nostalgic perfume spills out. The water that’s they’re sharing

on the surface of Mars, their relationship and eventually the world. And then

Laurie learning that her dad is The Comedian.

Justin: It’s

sort of saying like, “I don’t think you can change things. Once something

smashed, it’s smashed.”

Alex: Well,

let’s get off of that first page and go through, because there is a funny

sequence I think right at the beginning when they show up on Mars. And Laurie

shows up there, she starts tumbling down a hill. Doctor Manhattan initially

doesn’t understand what’s wrong with her, but he forgot that she can’t breathe

on Mars and she needs to give her atmosphere.

Alex: There’s

also, to your point, Pete, about the recurring motifs and it’s very strong in

this issue. We see for the second time in this sequence, the tumbling bottle of

nostalgia perfume, the one that’s falling down that eventually smashes by the

end of the issue. Which I think has a couple of meanings, right? I mean one

thing that we don’t know it is-

Pete: It’s

foreshadowing.

Alex: Yeah,

it’s foreshadowing. It’s nostalgia of course, like it’s memory. It smells

memory, it’s slowly coming back to her. But I think

there’s also, because nostalgia, we haven’t talked about this on the podcast

yet, is one of the products that Adrian Veidt markets. I think this is a sneaky

way of keeping him in the mix and keeping us thinking about him, even if he

doesn’t show up in the issue himself.

Pete: Yeah.

One thing I would like to talk about is yeah, it is kind of ridiculous that he

forgets that, oh Laurie has to breathe. Like he just gets, you know like,

“Oh yeah, I’m sorry about that.” He’s kind of absent minded

professor. But one of the things, we talk about how great the art and a lot of

great things about this comic, how high of a time it is. But the tough part is

as far as female characters are concerned, this falls very, very, very short.

Laurie doesn’t really have… she meanders it’s a lot about the sexual assault

a lot about like that kind of stuff. And then you get the drawing of her and

she ends up on her knees in front of him right in front of his blue penis. And

then like he touches her mouth to open her up again. And it’s like, come on

guys. You know what I mean?

Pete: So

that part is tough. I mean it’s not, I wouldn’t say as far as female characters

and being able to pass certain tests and stuff like that. It falls very short

and you’d like to think that the dressing and the female cares and that kind of

stuff, that all sucks. But it’s just kind of ridiculous how we get these kind

of repetitive, sexualized stuff with the female characters. And at this point

I’m kind of sick of the repeating of the first and last and then that kind of

stuff as well.

Alex: I

hear what you’re saying Pete, and I think you are right. Honestly it did not

occur to me with the finger to mouth drawing, but now that I look at it, I

think you’re absolutely correct there. But I do think a least I will give this

issue credit that it does tackle Laurie’s main issue, Laurie’s main problem

head on. Which is that for most of her life she hasn’t made any choices. She’s

kind of just gone with the flow. She’s done what her mother wanted her to do.

She’s done what other heroes thought she should do. Other people fed her ideas.

She just went with Doctor Manhattan, because she thought that would be a good

idea and she could help out him. And her entire life for decades was all about

Doctor Manhattan. And ultimately as much as Doctor Manhattan needs to realize

that the world is important enough to save, she needs to realize that she

herself is important. And I think that is what she does realize by the end of

the issue.

Justin: Well,

and I think to take the other side of it, like she’s kept in the dark by all of

the people close to her about sort of all of the big things in her life. And we

see in all these flashbacks that her mother’s keeping her in the dark about so

many important things. The Comedian doesn’t talk to her again, just like sort

of keeping her on the outside. She’s treated like an object by everyone. So of

course it’s hard for her to make decisions. She doesn’t have enough

information. And people are always just sort of moving her where they think she

needs to go with the information that she has.

Justin: I

also think it’s funny that you’re like, it definitely reads like doctor

Manhattan forgot that she couldn’t breathe. But I don’t know, it feels

intentional. I think there’s another way to read it that he is a power play.

This whole thing bringing her to the planet is a power play. She scorned him

and he’s like a cold dick, cold blue dick about it the whole time I think. And

if this guy knows everything about everyone, how does he forgetting that she

needs oxygen?

Pete: Yeah.

Especially if he knows where they’re going to fight. Oh, he can remember that

this is the part where she falls down and needs oxygen. This very much

represents kind of like the male, woman, kind of like what’s important, what’s

not throughout this comic, which is a little sad.

Alex: Well,

I think to Justin’s point, what he’s doing is basically like, “Oh, I don’t

need you. I’ve got a cool clockwork house on Mars now.”

Justin: It’s

such a boyish. It’s like first girlfriend broke up with this dude and he’s

like, “Oh, I’m actually cool right now. I have a palace on Mars. And I

know what you’re going to say and do. And I don’t care about the earth at all.

So why don’t you just go back home because I don’t care about the Earth at all.

I’ve moved on.”

Alex: It’s

also to get back to what Pete was saying, it is very gas lighting behavior on

his part. Which even if he does have the power to see everything at the same

time, him being like, “Yeah, I know what you’re going to say. I know

exactly what you’re like, you’re going to do this and then trick her into doing

that.”

Pete: Yeah,

it’s very gaslighty.

Alex: Yeah.

It’s very gaslighty. Doctor Manhattan was the original gas lighter and chief.

Justin: It’s

true. And that’s why Allen Moore was on that call, and that’s why he’s

appearing in front of Congress.

Alex: Exactly.

As long as that’s still valid, unless it’s not, in which case ignore it. Okay.

So I do want to talk about one thing that I believe came up in our [inaudible

00:16:31] on Slack. Somebody brought this up and it really stuck with me. This

issue. No, I’m sorry. Actually I think somebody tweeted this at us. What is

Laurie smoking? And I don’t mean like, “Yo, what she smoking?” I’d

mean literally, what is she smoking throughout his comic book?

Pete: It

caught me when I was a kid. I didn’t think about it, but now I’m like, “I

don’t think that that’s a cigarette. The way she’s relying on it.”

Justin: So

what is it he thinks she’s high.

Alex: I

think it’s hash man.

Pete: Yeah.

Justin: Yeah.

Alex: Yeah.

Justin: Hash

pipe.

Alex: I

don’t know what hash is, but it’s that.

Justin: I

mean, I don’t know. The way they talk about it, it just feels like a future

cigarette.

Alex: Yeah,

it’s a future cigarette where you put the tobacco in a big ball in the front

and then light it. Yeah.

Justin: So

are you saying maybe they’re not on Mars at all? She’s just too fucked up to

realize that they’re in like in Doc Manhattan’s apartment.

Pete: Yeah.

Alex: Yeah.

That’s probably it. They’re probably just like a bunch of regular bros and

she’s getting real high. And I think, I haven’t read this in a while, so maybe

this is what happened, but at the end she’ll be like, “Yo, I got so

fucking high. You were there and you were blue and you were wearing weird

mask.”

Alex: And

Rorschach like, “Whatever man. Party on dudes.”

Justin: Yeah,

there’s a lot of, definitely that’s the way to read this. Real party vibes.

Pete: I

also would like to say that, this is the creepiest way to look at a snow globe.

Of all the different angles and shading. That snow globe image it’s repeated

and it bothers me because it kind of like freaked me out as a kid, but seeing

it now I’m like, “God damn. It’s still so creepy.”

Justin: It

is creepy.

Alex: Yeah.

Well there’s so much going on with that one image. You’re getting of course,

the button from The Comedian again, which is part of who Laurie is. As we know

by the end of the issue. You’re getting the palace in there, which is

reminiscent of Doctor Manhattan’s palace. The fact that she doesn’t have any

features other than a smile and eyeballs. That’s very indicative of who Laurie

is. She’s looking at people, she’s seeing the world. She’s smiling and looking

pretty for them, but she’s not seeing herself as anything else at this point.

Alex: And

the other reason I agree with you in a certain sense, Pete, about the visual

motifs. I understand where you’re coming from and I understand what you’re

saying. But here what I think is so brilliant about the way Dave Gibbons lays

this out, there’s probably an Allen Morris script as well, is this is how

memory works. You don’t progress linearly through memory. You flash to things

out of order. You have the same images like here, she talks about her earliest

images, seeing the snow globe and slowly she works out before that and she

works out after that as she grabs more and more of that memory. But it’s really

just that flash. And maybe this is just me, but that’s certainly how my memory

works.

Pete: Yeah.

I also think it was interesting-

Justin: Yeah,

and just was-

Pete: Oh,

go ahead. I’m sorry.

Justin: I

was going to say, is she getting used a little bit by Doctor Manhattan’s powers

to really take her to these different moments? He sort of talks to her like

she. Like he’s like guiding her into these intense memories to help get her

where he wants.

Alex: yeah,

I mean part of it might be that he knows where the conversation is going,

because it’s all happening simultaneously for him. So he is just walking her

along that path of, “Well this is the thing that I say now that gets her

closer and closer to this revelation.” It might also be her wacky tobacky

that’s doing it, really opening up her mind.

Pete: Now

also, the first time around to reading it, I did realize that this floating

castle is also kind of like the castle in the snow globe.

Alex: Yeah,

yeah, yes, exactly. He’s always been there. One other thing that we touch on in

this issue are the memories, which is important to note. Because I think it was

only really established in the back matter, is that Laurie’s mom, Sally married

her agent. But as as strongly by this issue carried on an ongoing affair with

Eddie Blake that ultimately led to the conception of Laurie. What do we think

about that?

Alex: Because

I think that’s the other thing that’s very complicated from a 2019 perspective

to say… I don’t know how familiar you are with the musical Carousel. But

there’s this phrase of the musical Carousel where they ultimately come around

to, there’s this guy Billy Bigelow who hits the lady he’s in love with. And by

the end she’s like, “Sometimes a hit can feel like a kiss.” And it’s

a very old musical, doesn’t really hold up that way in a modern context,

though, my wife and I have had lots of conversations about it, because I love

Carousel just based on the emotion in it and the musical. She hates it very

specifically because of that. And I’m like, “Yeah, I get it.” But

this feels very similar to that-

Justin: Oo,

Alex and his wife, musical fight.

Alex: I

got to take her side on this man.

Justin: Trouble

in paradise?

Alex: Whatever

man.

Pete: It’s

hard to overlook that part and pull that out of the movie and say it’s still

cool.

Alex: Listen

man, we have a real first act second act into the woods relationship [inaudible

00:22:02] one of the two, you know what I’m talking about?

Justin: I

know what you’re talking about, dude. Pete you get it right?

Pete: I

hate when you do that.

Justin: When

we do what?

Alex: But

what I do want to talk about is the Eddie Blake of it all, because not only did

Sally carry on an affair with him. But I think through the way Alan Moore

writes it in through the way Dave Gibbons draws him in particular, it’s hard

not to feel some sympathy for Eddie Blake in this issue. Pete, you’re nodding

your head no, absolutely not. Under no circumstances?

Pete: Yeah,

man. Come on man. Let’s not sympathize with this dude who sexual assaults. You

know what I mean?

Justin: Well,

I will say, I think to your point Alex, I think the scene the first time we see

him in the issue where he sort of sees Laurie for the first time and it’s like

I think you see him feel like, “Oh wow, this is my daughter and she’s

grown up.” So I think you do get that feeling later. I think when he looks

more like a monster, he’s meant to be seen as a monster.

Alex: See

I didn’t get that. Let’s jump ahead. So there’s, you mentioned that first

scene. The second scene is at a party when Laurie is older, she’s now read,

Under The Hood, the Hollis Mason book. So she’s very well aware of the

allegations of rape. Which we know are true, because we saw them happen in the

comic book.

Alex: But

there’s a series of two paddles where Laurie confronts him and she says,

“Damn straight, damn straight. I do. I mean what kind of man are you? You

have to take some women, you have to force her into having sex against her

will.”

Alex: And

Eddie Blake says, “Only once.” Now, the thing there is such a

brilliant turn of phrase because the implication to her is a, I only raped her

once. But it’s actually, “No, I only had to force her once. All of the

other times were consensual.” But what I take away from Dave Gibbons

drawing of Eddie Blake in this panel is there’s a softness. It’s sad this in

the eyes. Because he realizes he’s never going to win, Laurie, his daughter

over to his side. He’s never going to have that. He’s older now. He’s lost

Sally who I think whatever you say about him, he probably had some sort of

genuine emotion for. And I do think that doesn’t forgive anything he did, but

it’s rather fascinating to layer in those complex emotions for him.

Justin: Yeah,

I mean I take that. That panel is the only once panel is great. And you do feel

like there’s something in there that’s still feeling regret and loss for that

whole thing. But two pals before that, he’s just such a regular dick and so

dismissive that, I don’t know, it’s complicated. That’s what’s so good about this

book, is these characters are all super complicated and we only get these

tightly compacted bits of their lives.

Pete: Yeah,

I think that is one of the things, I mean all of these characters are kind of

like, we see how horrible they are and how tormented and all the things like

that. So yeah, it’s just hard. It’s just such a weird thing that he’s like, I

almost feel like at this point in the book, someone gave them notes like,

“Hey guys, this is pretty dark.”

Pete: And

they tried to like be like, “Oh okay, well yeah he only raped her

once.” Because that’s the thing. It’s really weird.

Alex: I

don’t think that anybody was giving them notes like that. I’m sure they

developed it-

Pete: Not

back then.

Alex: Yeah.

Not, not back in pre notes times. No, I think what they were dealing with is

that people are complicated. It doesn’t forgive their actions, but they can

have emotional lives at the same time. And to be clear, I don’t have sympathy

for Eddie Blake, but I do think that they do an effective job of eliciting that

sympathy. And then making you realize, “Oh God, I just felt sympathy for

this monster.” And making you feel bad about yourself while you’re reading

it, which is what Laurie feels like.

Alex: It

ramps you up very well. So her realization of, “Oh God, this man, this

monster was my father. I am feeling so many things at the same time. I can’t

deal with them.” And that’s when at the end of the issue she collapses.

Justin: Yeah.

Alex: But

I did want to jump back and I want to talk about Mars a little bit, because we

get these gorgeous expansive pages from Dave Gibbons with John Higgins coloring

throughout. He’s mostly used red for danger and blood and terror and here

certainly we get that. But it’s mostly for the wonderful wide expanse of Mars.

And it’s so beautifully done.

Justin: Yeah.

It really is. And I think it’s meant to really put us on the side of Doctor

Manhattan choosing this planet over Earth, I feel like. And then it all comes

tumbling down. Like so many things, they expose too much of all of this and it

all falls to pieces. And Doctor Manhattan has to return to earth.

Alex: Yeah.

Pete: Yeah,

I do like how Laurie kind of messes up his perfect little toy that he makes.

And I think that even if he saw that coming or whatever, it’s a very powerful

way for her to be like, “Fuck all this.”

Justin: Well

he definitely saw coming because the force, the force field that they need to

not get hit by all the junk is already up like before it’s even crumbling. And

I also think he doesn’t need this little bachelor pad anymore, because he’s

gotten her back. She’s back in his thrall by the end of this issue and so he’s

like, “Okay, fine, I’ll leave with you. I knew this is coming and this is

what I wanted is to be in control of the situation again.”

Alex: Now,

so let’s talk about this moment-

Pete: This

guy’s a giant blue dick man.

Alex: You

keep saying that you keep your very focused on his dick. He’s more than just a

dick. He’s also got a butt. He’s got so hot abs.

Justin: Nice

abs.

Alex: Yeah,

nice abs.

Justin: Don’t

you think he makes those abs, like he didn’t earn them?

Alex: Yeah.

Yeah, come on work for you abs.

Pete: I

don’t see him working out. I don’t see him doing crunches in the morning.

Alex: Yeah.

Justin: Yeah.

Alex: Rude.

Super rude. Also, he’s bald.

Pete: Put

some hair back on there dude. You’re [inaudible 00:28:48].

Alex: Absolutely,

I would understand Doctor Manhattan a little better if he had like a flowing

mullet to be perfectly honest with you.

Justin: I

like the idea that he’s like, “I can see through time, I control molecular

matter but I can’t crack this bald shit. I don’t know what it is.”

Pete: I

do appreciate the fact that you said mullet, because he is business in the

front.

Alex: Yeah.

Doctor Manhattan. That was in the original outline that Alan Moore wrote down.

He was like, “Doctor Manhattan: party in the back.” That’s all it

said.

Justin: When

you say party in the back, what do you mean in this? Like where is the party in

the back for Doctor Manhattan?

Alex: His

butt.

Justin: Ah

got you. Is that what mullet means when you say party in the back, you’re meant

to. It’s about the butt.

Alex: Yeah.

It’s like a butt party. Ah, let’s talk about the snow globe a little bit and

what it means for Doctor Manhattan. Now, it’s pretty clear what the imagery

here means for Laurie, where she drops the snow globe, it breaks the castle

bursts out. She explains there was nothing inside, there was nothing magical.

It was just water. That’s when she kind of realized what the world was like. At

the same moments that’s happening, she’s throwing the nostalgia perfume. That

bursts open, that leaks the perfume everywhere, and the castle that Doctor

Manhattan builds that is similar to the castle that was in the snow globe

crumbles into bits. Again, pretty clear what that means for Laurie and

everything that’s going on with her. Her world is falling apart, et cetera, et

cetera. It’s breaking out of… but it’s also widening out at the same time

because it’s breaking out of her snow globe.

Alex: But

my question is, what does it mean for Doctor Manhattan? Because he built this

clockwork castle, because he was so connected to the clockworks several issues

back. That was his formative experience. So what does it mean that he is

willing to give it up at this point?

Justin: I

think it’s time for him to do that. It mean he talks about in this tissue here,

there’s a section of time coming up that he can’t see through. So I think-

Pete: Yeah,

he can’t see past it.

Justin: …

the gears are sort of a unspooling and so it’s time for him to also do that.

But like I said, it’s also about, he doesn’t need any of this anymore. He’s got

her back. That’s what sort of the function of this time was why he left Earth

and now he can go back and it’s all, he’s thrown the clock away.

Alex: Yeah.

Pete: Also

I’d like to point out though that like sometimes breaking shit is very freeing,

but sometimes that not so much. It really depends on what your throwing against

the wall and destroying.

Justin: Yeah.

It makes me have a lot of questions about what you’re talking about Pete.

Pete: I

do want to mention-

Justin: What

kind of stuff is cool to break?

Alex: Yeah.

What’s cool to break Pete?

Pete: I

would say like things that are glass that really shatter are fun to break

against something.

Alex: Okay.

What’s not fun to break? Knives?

Pete: No,

just the things that are like if you throw them, they stay together. It doesn’t

give you that big shatter effect.

Justin: Like

a rock.

Alex: Like

a couple that’s really in love?

Pete: Wow.

Wow.

Justin: Yeah.

You’re the rock Pete.

Alex: Speaking

of rocks, I do want to get back to that moment with The Comedian smiley face on

Mars, because I love the way this is laid out. Where over the course of two

pages, the last two pages of the issue, we see the smiley face filling the

entire panel. And this isn’t a nine panel grid, this is three panels per page.

So first it’s filling the entire panel, it’s everything, it’s the whole world.

Then you cut back and you see Mars and it’s still very much a part of it and you

realize, “Okay, it’s as big as a crater.” Which you’ve already been

told in the issue is enormous, it’s huge. And then we keep pulling back and we

see all of Mars, until finally Mars disappears and it’s nothing. And I think

what you’re ultimately left with is the argument that Laurie and Doctor

Manhattan are making, that there are things-

Justin: Smiles

fade.

Alex: Smiles

fade, smiles fade, but a frown is forever… is the lesson. No, what I was

going to say is I think you’re left with the question still of, is human life

actually important or is it nothing in the span of the universe?

Justin: Whoa.

But, I mean big question Alex.

Alex: Well

let’s figure this out on this podcast. Just real quick.

Pete: Yeah,

yeah. Can we just round it out real quick?

Justin: Listeners,

if you’ve been tuning in for while and now we get into the real shit. Is there

any meaning in life? And I’ll tell you what, I don’t know. I think in this

comic it’s just a bunch of people smashing into each other. And that’s the joke

of The Comedian. Is that he died to start this story, he’s not even in this

story as a real person, he’s just a looking back thing. And it all just spins

and spins and spins and it doesn’t amount to anything for him.

Alex: That’s

really well thought out Justin. Pete what about you? What’s the meaning of

life?

Pete: I

think you kind of got to look at the guy reading the comic book about life,

while life is happening. He gets to sample life and sample little worlds one

comic at a time. And you enjoy it for as long as you can until it’s over.

Justin: So

life is comics.

Pete: Yeah.

Alex: Nice.

Well I got to say if you asked me what the meaning of life is, it’s getting

high on hash and partying in the back. You know what I’m talking about?

Pete: Wow.

Justin: Yeah.

So just to summarize that Alex, you mean partying in your butt?

Alex: Yep.

Justin: Life

is partying in your butt?

Alex: Absolutely.

A hashy hash, butt party. And then the back matter. The back matter is all

sorts of stuff about Sally Jupiter. And this is all so fascinating, we haven’t

spent a ton of time with the characters, Sally Jupiter. And I feel like not

only do you really get confirmation of the history with Eddie but you find out

more about her, you find out about the time. You find out about how important super

heroing was to her, which is to say not as much as the merchandising rights.

And in a certain way it ties into what’s going on with Adrian Veidt, where we

found out about the action figures a couple of issues back. And in a certain

way I would say she started that off right. She was the person that said,

“Hey, it’s not all about doing good and punching people. You can make a

little money off of it at the same time.”

Justin: And

based on this last little news article, you can make a bad pornography as well.

Alex: Yes,

exactly. Any other thoughts about this issue before we wrap up? Pete, anything

else you want to say?

Pete: Yeah,

well, when I first read this through, I kind of stopped reading the interview

after the first sentence because it was such a stupid sexist thing to say that

I stopped reading. And then for this I read the whole thing and I was like,

“Oh my God, there’s so much more reveal.”

Pete: But

it started out as such a stupid typical like, “So it’s all about the sex,

right? Yeah, you got to go out there and look hot.”

Alex: Yeah,

but we’re works about that is, that’s what magazines are like. We’ve talked

about this before, but Alan Moore is really excellent at [inaudible 00:36:22]

the style of a lot of things and here in this back matter we get a news

article, we get a handwritten note, we get typed notes from different people,

we get a movie review. We get an interview in a magazine that, as you said, is

all about like sex and pushing buttons is a very Cosmo style thing, though

maybe a little deeper. Let’s say vanity fair.

Justin: Yeah,

nice dude.

Alex: Yeah.

Justin: Way

to draw that line.

Alex: Yes.

So it’s stunning. It’s stunning to read that stuff and be like, “Oh, okay.

The same guy wrote all of this stuff.”

Justin: It’s

just such a complete package from top to bottom, this whole comic.

Alex: Yeah,

good stuff. Good stuff. Listen, you guys are good stuff as well. And if you

would like to support our podcast, patrion.com/comic book club. Also, we do a

live show every Tuesday night at 8:00 PM at the People’s Improv Theater loft in

New York. Come on down. We’ll chat with you about Watchman.

Alex: Couple

of places you can check out the podcast, Watchman Watch Podcast on both

Instagram and Facebook. Watchmen Watch One on Twitter comicbookclublive.com for

this podcast and more. Also, you could subscribe and comment. Please do comment

on iTunes, Android, Spotify, Stitcher, or the app of your choice. And remember

we taped this podcast 35 minutes ago.

Justin: Allen

texted just texted me and he said he’s definitely going to be here next week.

The post Watchmen Watch: Issue #9, “The Darkness of Mere Being” appeared first on Comic Book Club.

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