Can net zero be a just transition for the whole world?

That's the big debating point this week on the podcast. I am joined by Anders Wijkman, Co-president of Club of Rome, a thinktank set up in the 1970s to look at the effects of business on the planet.

It published a report back then asking society, politicians and businesses to think about their actions on the planet's ecosystem. Anders has held a variety of roles from being a politician elected to the Swedish Parliament, to running the Swedish Red Cross, to heading up circular economic research during his 50+ years looking at environmental issues.

Most recently he published a critical outlook paper called "Come On – Capitalism, Short-termism, Population and the Destruction of the Planet”.

I asked him if he felt there was any way we can have a just transition, based on the progress so far and the lack of action when it comes to developing nations getting involved. His answers are quite revealing.