For this episode of the "Small Talk Window" podcast, host Brent Skinner went deep into the paint with guest Alex Furman, co-founder and CEO of Performica. What was their topic? Going into the recording, they weren't exactly sure except that they wanted to explore how we measure the return on investment of HR and people performance. And they concluded the discussion with a newfound respect for just how deep this rabbit hole goes. You probably know already, for example, but it's worth repeating and highlighting: payroll and a bunch of other things we spend on an organization's people show up as liabilities, not investments, in accounting spreadsheets. The reason why is complicated, but employee compensation isn't exactly, strictly outgoing money. Suffice it to say, we need to think this through better because the outcome will be to do better by our organizations' people.

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