In this episode of The Higher Ed Podcast, Kamaar DeJarnette sits down with Dr. K. L. Allen of WGU to talk ROI that actually matters, and how tighter employer–university partnerships can shape the next 2–3 years of higher education. From a rural North Carolina origin story to leading WGU across the Northeast, Dr. Allen shares practical leadership lessons, why outcomes must trump inputs, and how to make college “cool” (and affordable) again.