Getting to the top of the chain of command’s a pain in the arse. Especially if it’s a pyramid. Very not comfy, right? So pointy.

This week’s podcast engages Elan Babchuck on how chains of command destabilize our workplaces.

The appeal’s understandable, but the delusion’s deep.

You’ve seen Elan in the Atlantic, the Guardian, and on the TEDx stage. He’s recently co-authored the book Picking up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire. He’s an experienced organizational leader (Executive Vice President of the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership), and he’s a good and very funny human.

The Mode/Switchers--David, Emily, Ken, and Craig--loved Elan’s stories. But we’re not gonna lie: he’s going to trouble you with a paradox of leadership.

The gifts that get you to the top of the pyramid vanish when you get there.