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Today’s show:

China is weighing a ban on foreign access to its top AI models… the same low-cost open-weight systems on which half of the Valley’s startups are building. So we asked our two all-star panelists — Arena CEO/Co-Founder Anastasios Angelopoulos and Hippocratic AI CEO/Co-Founder Munjal Shah — what happens to US companies when their favorite cheap, powerful models vaporize overnight.

PLUS why Hippocratic runs 31 models in parallel to ensure clinical-grade safety, the latency-vs-intelligence tradeoff no one is optimizing for, and why a company’s benchmarks might become their most valuable IP.

Guests:

Anastasios Angelopoulos on X: https://x.com/ml_angelopoulos

Arena AI: https://arena.ai/

Agent Arena: https://arena.ai/leaderboard/agent

Munjal Shah on X: https://x.com/munjalshah

Hippocratic AI: https://hippocraticai.com/

Relevant Links:

Reuters: “Beijing is looking at curbing overseas access…”: https://www.reuters.com/world/beijing-is-looking-curbing-overseas-access-chinas-top-ai-models-sources-say-2026-07-07/

Z.ai: https://z.ai/

Alibaba’s Qwen: https://qwen.ai/

Google’s Gemma: https://ai.google.dev/gemma

Reflection AI: https://reflection.ai/

Nvidia: “How Open Models are Driving Research”: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/open-models-icml-2026/

DoorDash: “How we learned to trust our AI code reviewer”: https://careersatdoordash.com/blog/how-we-learned-to-trust-our-ai-code-reviewer-at-doordash

Harvey AI: https://www.harvey.ai/

ElevenLabs: https://elevenlabs.io/

Anthropic: “A global workspace in language models”: https://www.anthropic.com/research/global-workspace

CNN: “Trump rings opening bell to mark first day of trading for Trump Accounts”: https://www.cnn.com/2026/07/06/business/trump-accounts-launch

Brown University Health: https://www.brownhealth.org/

Timestamps:

0:00 Will US companies lose access to Chinese models?

1:42 Open source makes running 31 models viable

5:01 How deep is the West's open source bench?

13:20 Jagged Intelligence and why post-training matters

25:22 Benchmarks as living quality checks

32:49 Why models still struggle with drug names

42:58 Fine-tuning TV, cough, and sob detection

46:08 What is Arena actually selling?

1:08:29 Nationalization vs. buying stakes in AI companies

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