When we hear the word secular, it’s often framed as the opposite of sacred—a divide that can leave us assuming anything “secular” is somehow lesser, or even bad. But what if that assumption is more habit than truth?

In this episode, Emily Austin continues her conversation with theologian, writer, and podcaster Femi Olutade. Together, they trace how the church has historically understood the relationship between the sacred and the secular—from the desert mothers and fathers of early Christianity, to the Orthodox idea of synergia between faith and governance, to the way hip hop speaks to the heartbeat of a generation.

Highlights include:

• Why “secular” originally meant “of an age” rather than “against God”

• How the Protestant Reformation reshaped the sacred/secular divide

• Hip hop as the “CNN of the ghetto” and a prophetic art form telling the truth of its time

• Tupac’s Changes as a lens for repentance, transformation, and even echoes of Lent

Emily shares her own journey of unlearning the reflex that “secular = bad,” and together, Femi and Emily reflect on how music, art, and culture carry the Divine.

🎟️ Don’t miss Femi live in Memphis: Get tickets to his Barth House Theological Society lecture here