This episode of What the Ref mixes REF chat with community energy as James returns, Researchfish’s impending closure sparks lively debate, and the team reflects on what meaningful research culture could look like next. Gemma, James and Lindsay unpack why Researchfish mattered, why few will mourn it, and what might replace it. The spotlight then turns to Hidden REF’s first-ever community call, which attracted over 60 participants keen to share experiences of non-traditional outputs, recognition and REF realities. With insights, humour and optimism, the episode celebrates collaboration, learning across institutions, and building a more supportive REF community.

Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Gemma Derrick - a self-confessed REF junkie - James Baker and Lyndsey Ballantyne, and our producer is Ben Thomas.

Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org

'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England.

Want to get in touch? Email: [email protected]

WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas.

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