This week on What the Ref, the team heads to Plymouth for a lively workshop on non-traditional outputs before diving into a fascinating interview with Gareth Cole on the future of open access books. From monographs to “long-form” research, they unpack the challenges of defining openness, funding models beyond book processing charges, and the tension between flexibility and REF policy. Is the system sidelining books—and entire disciplines? Plus, new REF folklore debunked: can novels and trade books really be submitted? A sharp, thought-provoking episode on where research publishing is heading next.

Our hosts are all members of the Hidden REF committee based at the universities of Southampton and Bristol: Simon Hettrick, James Baker and Ola Thomson, and our producer is Ben Thomas.

Find out more about the HiddenREF campaign at Hidden-REF.org

'What the REF' is made possible by the Embedding Trust in Evaluation (E-TIE) research grant from Research England.

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WTreF is co-produced by Simon Hettrick, Gemma Derrick, James Baker and Ben Thomas. Video and Sound production by Ben Thomas.

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