Spicy headline? Yes. 

I will kick this off with this statement: diversity and inclusion in the workplace has become not only increasingly relevant in recent years, but increasingly important as well, and for good reason. A diverse and inclusive workplace not only benefits the employees who work there, but the organization as a whole. Research shows that diverse organizations are more profitable, resilient and successful than those that haven’t quite caught up to modern times.

That said, there is an undercurrent that is hushed and not spoken about in the open as much as it should, and that’s what’s to do with the white men in the office. Because traditionally, when we talk D&I, we aren’t talking about the white guys. 

Much more detail in the podcast, but there is an emotional challenge for men, who had expectations of promotions and ongoing success, that feel that they now have opportunities denied them. 

It’s a touchy subject to bring up, and while some would say, “yep, tough life,” others would say that there are better ways of going about it. 

It’s a perfect example of macro change inflicting specific challenges onto micro situations. But while we should encourage more Diversity and Inclusion programs, we should also encourage the dialogue to ensure that resentment doesn’t build within the organization. 

Stats, examples, details on the episode – would love your commentary – and look forward to chatting soon!

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Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here. Episode 115, what are we gonna do with all the white guys in the office? Very hyperbolic, very spicy hyperbolic title. I know I’m gonna go with it. Apologize for the cold, please bear with me while I do it. Um, yes, spicy topic. There’s a lot of white guys in the office. This is not an attack on white guys. This is actually a serious thing that, uh, I’ve talked to a lot of clients about.

And this is, um, there’s this undercurrent that we need to address. Um, I’m gonna kick this off by saying diversity and inclusion programs are necessary. They are great. They’re not only increasingly relevant, but they’re increasingly important. And we’re learning a lot about what’s, you know, what can change in the office and what’s possible with a more diverse workforce. And, um, how much benefit a really diverse workforce brings. And, uh, companies and individuals working in diverse workforces are, are more productive.

They’re more profitable, they’re more, uh, culturally aligned. The culture’s more dynamic. The measurement is there, the science is there. It’s all very, very good. And I love the diversity and inclusion programs that are going on. That’s great. So research is there definitely worth it. Definitely important. We still have a lot of work to do. That said, there is an undercurrent, this little hush hush kind of not spoken about really in a certain type of way, as, as much as it should, is what are you doing with the white guys in the office?

Because when we’re talking about diversity and inclusion programs and diversifying leadership and diversifying the things that really matter, when we talk about diversity, the first thing that comes to your mind is generally not a white guy, . Um, and the the philosophy behind that is that, look, and I had a conversation a long time ago, Eileen Scully was on, she wrote a book, um, she wrote a book about the, uh, the workplace and, and women in the workplace.

And basically what she said on the, the, the podcast, which resonated with me, is everything about work was built by white men. Okay? And that doesn’t work for everybody. And now, as the world’s changing and catching up and doing all of these types of things, um, we need to, it’s not set up for women. It’s not set up for black people. It’s not set up, you know, it’s not just creating work.

There’s an environment within which we work. And so that’s evolving and that’s changing, and it’s very, very good. It needs to change. Um, workplace and leadership has traditionally been run by white guys, right? And there have been some, you know, and I I’m saying white guys, it’s mostly men. Uh, we’re seeing more, if you take a look at leadership teams, right? The head of HR is generally a woman. The head of legal is generally a woman, but exceptions, you know, obviously exist.

But if you take a look macro at the, the world, it’s, most CEOs are men and most COOs are men. And, um, and that’s CFOs are men. And that, that’s it, right? And it’s, it’s not that it’s been intentional, okay? I wanna make sure that that’s kind of Dr. It’s not this intentional kind of, well, this is the white guy club and you’re not allowed to be in it, even though it’s kind of presented that way.

If we take a look back over how these things just happened to evolve, right? Women weren’t in the workplace because they, we didn’t really have the technology to, you know, there was the kid thing and all of that. And women are taking control and changing their priorities on that. And, and either waiting later to have children or now there are more, you know, workplaces caught up starting to catch up in terms of allowing women to have children and do that balance thing.

And, you know, society is changing that type of way. Um, the black people coming into the workplace, that’s a whole different challenge. Um, which we still have more progress to do on that. Um, right? It’s just, I mean, that’s, they’ve always been left out, whether subconsciously or not, um, from golf clubs to work clubs, they’re just, you know, they haven’t been there. And so we’re making important inroads on that, and that’s good.

Um, so any diverse group, I guess it’s just kind of the way that it evolved. For right or wrong, some people did bad things, some people just were negligent and didn’t pay attention or just didn’t care, right? And, and that’s just the way it is. But let’s talk about today, um, because we’re making progress and that’s great. Um, and the situation we have today, we’re making inroads and that’s great. Here’s my challenge.

Well, it’s not my challenge because I have my own business, but the challenge I have with some of my clients, um, and they’ll remain nameless. Companies will remain nameless, but there is, um, I mean, if you take a look at my, the population of my clients, I’ve got the businesses and we’re doing good kind of future of people work and all of that stuff. We don’t really talk about diversity and inclusion.

I’m a white guy. Nobody wants to listen to a white guy talk about diversity and inclusion. Um, so I don’t even kind of go there, but we talk about how do you structure your people and all of that kind of, you know, beyond any of who those people are. Just let’s talk about in terms of, you know, logic and, and everything else. We could worry about that other stuff later. Then my individual coaching clients, you know, they’re working with me, they wanna get to the C-suite they’re doing, and they’re probably half men, half women.

Um, it’s really split down the middle. But then out of the guys, uh, actually out of all of them, it’s mostly white people because there’s mostly white people at work. And, you know, I do have different races that I work with and everything else, but when I think about the guys that I work with, it’s mostly white guys, and they’re looking to get up into the C-suite and do all of these things.

I mean, there there is this segment of middle management or upper middle management, whatever you wanna do it. Um, it’s white guys. They, they, um, they, they look at corporate leadership, they look at the change and they see what’s happening and they’re losing the motivation to go forward because they don’t see a future. And here’s my thesis statement. I’m gonna make the thesis statement now, then I’m gonna talk a little bit more.

Oh, I just lost my pen. Um, when you make inroads to diversity inclusion, which is good, these opportunities were never afforded people before, right? The women coming up through the workforce in the eighties and the nineties, um, dealt with some crazy bs, didn’t have the real opportunities afforded to them. You had to be like a vicious person in order to get there. And, um, and then that created new problems in terms of, you know, type of person you are and everything else.

Um, so the opportunities weren’t really there. They’re there now and that’s great, and they’re excited and that’s wonderful and they should be, and that’s fantastic. People of other races, right? Black people, everyone else, same thing. Opportunity wasn’t really there. We’re finally, you know, people are starting to pay attention. Probably say, Hey, you know what? Diversity is a good thing. This is all kind of stupid. The way that we’ve set it up.

Let’s move it forward. Opportunity is there that wasn’t there before. This is great. They’re excited, they’re doing it. There’s investment and there’s groups and there’s all kinds of stuff for women and, and for, uh, everybody. And that’s excellent. White men came up, and I don’t know if this is generational, uh, because it may be done by the time, like the millennials get through it. So it could only be like a short term challenge, uh, came up with the expectation assumption that they were going to keep working and working hard, and they would have promotions and they could work towards promotions and do all of that.

That’s been taken away in some instances. And I’ll give more kind of details on that in a little bit. And so it’s not, that opportunity hasn’t been there, it’s opportunity feels like on an emotional level, it’s being taken away. And this is on an individual basis, okay? So at a macro level, yes, we need more diversity, right? But simple math will tell you there’s only a set number of leadership positions. And so we gotta change the dynamic.

And so the conversation that’s happening is, um, I should have gotten that role. I can’t because they’re not gonna put a white guy in that role. Um, whether they should or shouldn’t perceive it that way, you know, we could talk about that and, and we’ll talk about that a little bit. I’ve been in meetings, here’s, you know, perfect example. I had a client who was up for a promotion, should have gotten it, was told by his boss, like, go in for this job.

We’re gonna be redoing things. Like, this is you, you’re the perfect guy for it. He was incredibly well suited for it. Um, and then they said, well, we have to open it up. So they opened it up and the HR person told him that he asked for an update on what the job thing was, um, that this is a quote, we didn’t get any women of color to apply for it, so we’re putting the job on hold.

And now this is a major role. They can’t really put this role on hold, but they’re putting it on hold. There are no in this industry and, and job type, I don’t know. I asked him, you know, are there women of color in this? Right? And he’s like, no, I don’t know anybody. Like this is not, it’s just not there, right? So it’s a misguided kind of attempt at just saying, we have to put a person in here and there’s a misinterpretation of the way that diversity’s supposed to work.

And so now he’s not getting the job, the job is being shelved. And, and, and that’s it. And so now he looked at me and he’s like, Jim, am I done? He goes, I think I’m finished. I’ve invested. I mean, he’s in his early fifties. I I’ve invested my time, I’ve done done all of this stuff. He said, if I can’t, like this was my natural next, this is where I was supposed to go.

And I guess I’m, I guess I’m finished. Um, now outside of the HR person, probably shouldn’t have said that, obviously. Uh, but I’ve been on calls where the execs said, there’s no way we’re putting a white guy in that, in that position. And the HR person goes, you can’t say it that way. You know, you gotta say it this way. Uh, , you say it like this. I remember sitting in, in finance, uh, person up there said, you know, our priority this year is to only promote women.

And every guy just basically pulled out their phone and said, who else is hiring? Right? Like, I guess I’m, I’m not getting a promotion this year. And so there’s this semantics of, right. They didn’t say it the way they should have said it, but like, we all know what it means. And the guys are like, well, what about me? Right? So macro, and here’s the funny thing, most white guys are for it.

Most guys are for the diversity and inclusion and everything, and they wanna mentor. And, um, and here’s the funny kicker about the one client he sponsored and started the diversity and inclusion thing at the workplace. Um, he was a white guy, but he said, this is really important and he championed it and everything else. And, and, uh, now he feels like it’s burning him. Um, now it’s emotional versus logic. And, and we’ve got all of these types of things and, and we have these assumptions.

And, um, and so, so we have to think about how this evolves and how do you at least engage these men in conversation to say, look, you still have value. There still is a future, right? The macro thing is very important, but on an individual micro level, people will say, well, what about me? Right? I agree with that. You know, it’s like, I, I want speed bumps in the neighborhood, but don’t put it in front of my house, right?

, and, you know, I don’t wanna listen to that. Um, I feel like, and I, I feel like this is short term, the more I think about this, right? It’s, it’s a generation X, not really baby boomers, they’re kind of done, they’re out of the office and they’re, they’re, um, just hoarding their money and doing whatever. But, uh, most boomers are kind of gone. We’re in the Gen X world now. It’s a Gen X challenge, it’s a millennial challenge after that, GenZ and all that other stuff, they’ve, they’re growing up in a different type of, um, a different type of world.

And so, um, I hate to present a problem and not have solutions, but this is a topic that I’m, I’m talking to a lot of people about, uh, just write an amazing book called Men Without Work. Apparently something like almost 20% of able-bodied men are out of the workforce, not even looking for job. They’re not even included in unemployment numbers. They’re out of the workforce and, um, not looking for a job, which is insane to me, right?

And so where are these people going? And I was looking through the data and reading the book, and they said, well, you know what, more women came into the workplace, which is good. So we don’t see that there’s less people and you know, this whole shift. But now we’ve got a societal issue where you have no motivation, no type of work. A lot of the research in terms of happiness surveys and everything, there was a, a, a male one that had happened years ago where what gives you energy?

All the women had answered it, you know, my family gives me energy. And, you know, all this above and beyond what gives you purpose and everything for men was my work. And if you take a look at suicide rates, the biggest suicide group are men over the age of 60. And a lot of people are tying them back to the fact that they don’t have work and they don’t have purpose. They’ve retired, they don’t know what to do with themselves.

They don’t, you know, there is this societal shift that’s happening and men have to figure it out. And when we take a look at, I have no future at this organization, you’re pushing the, the age limit. You know, what are the guys in their forties and fifties gonna do? Where, you know, when I’ve hit my ceiling, now I’ve got another 20 years in this role. I don’t wanna do that, right? Do I have to do a fundamental shift?

Do I have to do a fundamental change? I have to go to a new industry, like there’s, and look, life’s life sucks right there. There is this aspect to it. Welcome to life, it’s gonna hit you hard, wear a cup and move on. So there is kind of a little tough love that needs to happen. It’s not like we have to handhold all of these people. Um, but there is this psychological kind of thing.

And, and we know that men don’t like to talk about the stuff we don’t like, for a lot of reasons. Not because we can’t, but because we just don’t wanna burden other people with our problems. And, and we like to say, well, you should talk about it. Some guys just don’t want to. Um, but there are, by the way, if you are in this situation, you’re a guy listening to it, there are plenty of people who will talk to you about it and wanna talk to you about it, and we’ll help you articulate it.

And that’s, you know, there are challenges and opportunity and, but generally what we have to do is we kind of have to, we have to work through it, we have to articulate it, and we have to talk about it. Uh, so what can we do about this? This is, I’ll remind, um, and we could talk to leadership, we could talk to individuals, we could talk to anybody. But remember, this is an individual challenge.

It’s a weird one because it’s, the macro challenge is we don’t have enough diversity in the workplace, okay? And that’s a macro general look at the numbers. It’s true, it’s there. And so we have to fix that challenge. But on an individual level, uh, what’s my path and what does this mean for me? And the devil is in the details. And when we talk about macro change, we gotta talk about a micro individual.

Um, and some people in your ranks are getting very frustrated because they don’t feel like they have a path and they don’t know where they’re going to go. Um, when we take a look, last week I talked about ambition. Where’d the ambition go? Is we don’t know where we’re going, right? And this is kind of doubly true for, for the men. And so, um, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m saying it’s a challenge we have to deal with.

So first, I mean, the first thing I would say in terms of solutions, these probably aren’t the greatest solutions, but I’ll start the conversation, is number one, we have to recognize that this is a challenge, right? And you can’t just ignore it. When we’re putting together diversity and inclusion programs, we have to include white men in that, okay? Because it’s, there is this shift of what’s happening and, and they have value to bring it, and they’re very supportive of it.

But we have to recognize that this is an emotional challenge for men. Um, and we can’t coddle them and, and, you know, do it. There’s, there’s an appropriate way to do that, but we, we don’t, we gotta figure that out. So anyway, that’s one, I’ll just start my pen again. So that’s two pens. Um, number two, we have to foster dialogue if it’s possible, right? And, and this is a very difficult challenge to do.

I had a, um, , a friend of mine does workshops, and they went in and, and these women went to the manager and they said, Hey, we want for the women’s group, we want a leadership development. This person come in and do it. And then says, look, you can do it, but then you also gotta do one for the guys, right? Like, if you want to do that, we’re gonna be equitable and try and do the right thing.

They said, fine. So the women’s leadership one was mobbed, nobody showed up to the men’s one. And the women are like, look, we gave a men’s one, nobody showed up. Um, but it was called Why your toxic masculinity is ruining the Office, or something like that. And so they created it for the men, but it was very , right? So we have to be careful about the way that we’re accusing individuals, right?

We take this personally and we do this type of work. Um, so there is a right and wrong way to go about it. We have to be smart with the way that we, we talk about all of these things and, and we talk about it with, try to remove the emotion from it and just talk about the logical look. You’ve got a fruit salad that’s full of just, you know, cantaloupe. You gotta add strawberries and, and blueberries.

You might have to take some cantaloupe out of it, and that’s it. Then you have a good fruit salad. So that’s it. We want the flavor, we want the changes, we want diversity. And that’s, you know, it’s an important thing. And there’s still value that you can bring. And, and maybe we have to change the mentality of our people in terms of is it status, is it role title, is it, you know, do we change?

And, and this is the good work that we’re doing with, with the corporate clients, is we’re restructuring the way we think about people and the way we think about, um, accountability and agency and, and what people can do. And, um, so that will work itself out in the wash, but we still have to address it. Help them also as an idea to become agents of this change, to be involved with it.

Don’t just have this change thrust upon them, have them be active components of it. A lot of white guys are really into this and really wanna be helpful. And this is another way that we can, we can do, um, bring more value to diversity and inclusion programs, is that they do have a voice. And as we rethink the workplace, that can provide value as well. So, more to come on this and, and I have a lot more thoughts, and I’m gonna still articulate them.

I’m interested in yours. Um, but for leadership, recognize it’s a challenge. How we communicate it, how we share it, how we talk about it is incredibly important. It’s a delicate issue. Um, but most guys really can’t feel like they could talk about it. And so I’ll say for you, why not? Who cares? And let’s see what, let’s see what could come out of it. So, um, this is beyond talking points. It’s a big thing.

Good luck with it. I’m happy to talk more about it. I’m happy to talk about how we can accommodate them and bigger, um, and bigger types of discussions of people. And, and, uh, and as these diversity and inclusion programs do really, really good things, we can, we can figure out a solution for everybody. So good luck. Have a wonderful week and I’ll see you next week. Thanks.