Data about the US labor market has been all over the headlines of late -- but what's actually in these numbers? Beyond the recent political upheaval surrounding the August 1, 2025, jobs report, the process of translating complex and nuanced things like labor market activity into numbers, and then making sense of those numbers while also being mindful of long-term deeper trends that might affect those interpretations -- is super fascinating and important.

In this episode we talk with Ben Casselman, Chief Economics Correspondent at the New York Times, about how to think about these numbers, how they fit into our broader understanding of the health of the economy, and some of the longer-term challenges facing our ability to collect this data going forward. It's a fascinating conversation and Ben is incredibly thoughtful and engaging, and I'm thrilled to share it with you.

Note: This interview was recorded in January 2025, well before the August jobs report release and subsequent firing of the head of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). That said, this discussion of how to think about the numbers, what's actually in them, and why economic activity can be really hard to measure -- is still super relevant, if not more relevant, today. In our next episode we will address the events since August. 1 in an interview with Erica Groshen, who was the head of the BLS from 2013-17.

As ever, thanks for listening! I hope you find this conversation as helpful as I did in making sense of the news.

Follow Ben and read his work! Here he is on X and LinkedIn. And here are some of my favorite articles by him of late:

• Ben’s recent writing on jobs data reliability (referenced at the opening of this episode)
• Ben’s writeup about the precedent of firing head of BLS (fantastic article for putting current events in context)
• Ben’s article about trust in economic data (referenced towards the end of this episode)

I'm at jonesrooy.com and @jonesrooy on all the things.

Behind the Data is a podcast that uncovers the hidden stories within the data shaping our world. From political polls to global happiness trackers, we dive into the datasets that influence the decisions we make—while showing you why data isn’t just numbers, but a way to understand the world. Whether you're a data newbie or a seasoned pro, each episode makes complex data approachable, revealing surprising insights and the human side of every dataset. Come for the discoveries, stay for the stories.

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