If you've been following Streetsblog for a while, you might have heard of famed planner/engineer/all-around transportation superstar Roger Millar, not least for his recent leadership as the head of the Washington state DOT. But you might not have heard that, while at WashDOT, Millar and his team did something quietly radical: they challenged every decision maker in their state to confront the role of land use in saving lives in our roads, by changing the very framework on which the state's Vision Zero program rests.

On this episode of The Brake, we sit down with Secretary Millar on the eve of his departure from WashDOT to talk about not just why that change could be so impactful, but how he wants his career to be remembered, even as he transitions to a new chapter. And along the way, we get into a deeper conversation about what state DOTs are really for, and how advocates can push them to do better.