Thank you so much for listening!

Follow Julians and Kellie on Twitter/X. You can also read Kellie's personal finance blog, although she's now a retired writer. If you prefer to read instead of listen, head on over to our Substack, where we summarize our discussions in an easy-to-read format. 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit the414podcast.substack.com