In this episode of Notes from Big Trails, Rob speaks to Jon Barton, founder of Vertebrate Publishing, about walking — and running — the Pennine Way.

They explore why the Pennine Way divides opinion, what the early sections across Kinder and Bleaklow are really like, and why places such as High Cup Nick, Upper Teesdale, Cross Fell and the Cheviots leave such a strong impression.

Jon reflects on:

• Growing up visiting Swaledale and Upper Teesdale
• How childhood landscapes shaped his wanderlust
• Experiencing the Pennine Way through the Spine events
• The reality of “boggy” sections and bleak reputations
• Wildlife encounters — curlews, golden plover, roe deer
• Limestone country around Malham
• The strange surreal feeling of walking through busy places after days on the moor
• Why motivation matters more than raw fitness

They also discuss practical considerations — kit familiarity, pacing, and whether the Pennine Way should be your first long-distance trail.