What if high performance did not have to come at the cost of people?

In this episode Toussaint sits down with Kathy Eastwood, CEO and creator of the E3 Leadership Code, to talk about what it really takes to lead from the second chair. Kathy brings years of experience as a Chief of Staff, Chief People Officer, COO, and leadership strategist. Her work focuses on helping leaders drive results while still building trust, engagement, and healthy team culture.

Kathy shares why the Chief of Staff role became one of her favorite leadership assignments. She describes it as the work of taking a leader’s vision and translating it into tangible results. That is exactly where many second-chair leaders thrive. They may not always be the public face of the vision, but they often carry the responsibility of making sure the vision lands, moves, and gets executed.

Leadership is not an either-or choice between results and people. Kathy challenges the idea that leaders must choose between delivering outcomes and caring for their teams. Her point is clear: you get better results by caring about your people.

Takeaways

Kathy explains that second-chair leaders often influence without direct authority. That means trust, clarity, and relationships matter more than control.

She introduces her “FEUD” framework: fear, ego, uncertainty, and doubt. These are the barriers that often keep people from buying in and moving forward.

One of the strongest moments in the episode is Kathy’s explanation of the Platinum Rule: treat people the way they want to be treated. This is a critical shift for leaders who assume their preferred communication style works for everyone.

Kathy also breaks down the E3 Leadership Code: Express, Engage, and Execute, powered by emotional qualities. She explains that strong leadership requires vision, people engagement, disciplined execution, and the emotional intelligence to connect with people in a real way.

Why This Matters for Second-Chair Leaders

Second-chair leaders are often asked to carry the weight between vision and execution. They hear the leader’s message more than once, clarify what is being communicated, interpret what is landing with the team, and help translate big ideas into practical action.

This episode is a reminder that the second chair is not a lesser seat. It is a strategic seat. It requires emotional intelligence, operational discipline, self-awareness, and the ability to influence people who may not report directly to you.

Memorable Quotes

“Leadership is not either results or people. It is both.”

“You actually get your results by caring about your people.”

“Logic does not move people. Emotions do.”

“The number two role is taking a brilliant vision and translating it so it lands with each person.”

Connect with Kathy

Learn more about Kathy Eastwood, the E3 Leadership Code, and her work at kathyeastwood.com or on LinkedIn.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Kathy's leadership journey

01:51 The role of Chief of Staff in driving change

03:05 Innate skills and leadership style

04:15 The value of vision and repetition

04:59 The importance of diverse skills in leadership

05:56 Clarity and communication in leadership

09:27 Understanding the feud: fear, ego, uncertainty, doubt

10:36 Building trust and influence without control

13:12 The platinum rule: treat others as they want to be treated

17:22 The E3 leadership code: express, engage, execute

23:20 The five-week bootcamp and ongoing development

24:50 Applicability for all organizational levels

27:02 Creating a high-performance culture

29:14 Connecting with Kathy and resources