Nobody wants to talk about grief. At least, not until it invades our lives and we feel like not talking about it might crush us.

On this special episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson welcome Christianity Today Editor-in-Chief Daniel Harrell. Daniel, who pastored for over 30 years, lost his wife, Dawn, to cancer in 2019. He speaks openly and honestly about the difficulty of suffering and mourning as a pastor. Ronnie, Jared, and Daniel discuss the ways congregations struggle to respond to a pastor’s pain and how pastors can develop relationships that will support them when tragedy strikes. This episode underscores how brokenness and beauty often keep the same company.

If you’d like to hear more about Daniel’s story and what God has revealed to him about suffering, check out the new Christianity Today podcast Surprised by Grief, which Harrell co-hosts with young widow and author Clarissa Moll.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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