This one’s a proper rugby pub yarn.

Tony Johnson joins us to tackle one of the biggest debates in New Zealand sport. Who are the greatest All Blacks captains of all time? No stats spreadsheets, no definitive rankings. Just leadership, mana, and the moments that define greatness.

TJ and Marty work through names that shaped generations. From pioneers like David Gallaher, through statesmen such as Wilson Whineray and Graham Mourie, to modern-era icons including Sean Fitzpatrick and Richie McCaw.

It’s about courage under fire, thinking the game differently, and the calm heads who carried the jersey when it mattered most. We also give credit where it’s due to leaders like Wayne Shelford, whose impact went far beyond the win-loss column.

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