How do we serve God and live in the world? What relationship should the church have with the state? My guest today, Joel Biermann, answers those questions and more in his book, Wholly Citizens. Joel is a professor at Concordia Seminary, where he teaches systematic theology. Our discussion features a two-kingdom approach, but nothing like the two-kingdom view many of us have heard. He emphasizes the Reformation view of Martin Luther, as well as that of Calvin, in illustrating the robust relationship between church and state.  

• Wholly Citizens