Lacey speaks to Carson Benowitz-Fredericks, MSPH, the research manager for industry watchdog Alcohol Justice about exactly how bad alcohol is. They discuss how intensely shady the alcohol industry is and why you shouldn't trust the studies that come out saying moderate use could be good for you. They talk about the links between alcohol and cancer and why "natural wine" is really the same as Natty Ice. They also talk about how the disease model isn't effective in capturing the whole story about addiction.