Mining touches nearly everything in modern life, yet it remains one of the most misunderstood and underappreciated corners of private markets. I sit down with Pim Kallisvaart to explore why mining private equity has struggled historically, why traditional buyout playbooks don’t work in this sector, and what it actually takes to generate real returns in an industry governed more by geology than financial engineering.

Pim shares his journey from growing up in the Netherlands to studying finance, joining JPMorgan’s mining team during the early 2000s commodity supercycle, and eventually co-founding Hawkes Point Capital. We talk about why mining is capital-intensive, cyclical, and slow to move, and how those characteristics have led many investors to underestimate timelines, overpay for assets, or invest in jurisdictions that proved impossible to manage. Pim explains why Hawkes Point focuses on pre-production assets in stable regions, combines deep technical due diligence with disciplined governance, and views taking a mine into production as the primary driver of value creation.

We also dig into why so many publicly listed mining companies are effectively stranded, how the rise of passive investing has reshaped capital access, and why minority equity ownership can be more powerful than debt or royalty structures in this space. Pim breaks down how exits actually happen, how commodity price risk is managed without making macro bets, and why this niche remains rich with opportunity despite decades of disappointment. It’s a candid look at what mining private equity really requires, and why, when done correctly, it can be both repeatable and highly rewarding.

Episode Highlights: 

• [00:05] Mining is a misunderstood but essential part of private markets.
• [01:08] Pim Kallisvaart is here to talk about his background in mining private equity and real assets.
• [02:39] Pim shares growing up in the Netherlands and developing an early interest in finance and economics.
• [04:15] Joining JPMorgan’s mining team during the early-2000s commodity supercycle became a turning point in his career.
• [05:45] Why mining touches nearly everything in modern life despite operating far from financial centers.
• [07:24] Why many mining private equity funds have failed despite big promises.
• [08:52] Pim explains how small and capital-constrained the mining PE industry actually is.
• [10:21] Lessons learned from early mining funds that underestimated timelines, jurisdictions, and execution risk.
• [12:13] Why traditional buyout models and leverage don’t work in a cyclical, geology-driven industry.
• [13:24] How value is created by taking pre-production assets into production rather than financial engineering.
• [14:43] Geology as the single biggest source of irreversible risk in mining investments.
• [15:21] The limits of certainty in mineral estimates and why data density and statistics matter.
• [17:31] Why the best place to find a mine is often next to an existing one.
• [18:55] How public markets dominate mining capital and leave many small companies stranded and illiquid.
• [21:00] The rise of passive investing and ETFs and its impact on funding developing mining companies.
• [23:46] Why capital alone isn’t enough and how Hawkes Point adds value through technical and strategic support.
• [24:41] Mining compared to building a house, with different expertise required at each stage.
• [26:59] The importance of permitting certainty, stable jurisdictions, and independent geological verification.
• [29:18] Why Hawkes Point prefers collaborative minority equity over control-based strategies.
• [30:02] Parallels between mining and biotech, including regulation, long timelines, and stranded public assets.
• [31:37] How commodity cycles self-correct through price signals and delayed supply responses.
• [34:18] Differences between precious metals and base metals and why broad forecasts are unreliable.
• [36:59] Designing a strategy that doesn’t depend on being right about commodity prices.
• [38:36] Using hedging and cost position to protect downside risk.
• [41:41] Tenement prospectivity explained and the difference between exploration upside and exploration risk.
• [44:09] Why existing infrastructure dramatically accelerates value creation.
• [46:41] How data collection naturally limits speed, even in top-performing investments.
• [47:31] Exiting through block trades as companies reach scale and index eligibility.
• [49:19] How ETF inclusion creates a wall of liquidity for exits.
• [50:18] M&A as a natural outcome in a depleting-asset industry.
• [52:08] Why strategic equity offers more control than debt or royalty structures.
• [54:02] Governance, board seats, and technical committees as value-protection tools.
• [56:27] Leadership transitions as projects move from development into production.
• [58:41] Why collaboration and trust outperform heavy-handed governance.
• [59:52] The durability of the opportunity set due to ongoing capital scarcity.
• [1:02:18] Pim reflects on mentorship, passion, and long-term thinking in building a career.

Resources & Links Related to this Episode

• Hawkes Point Capital
• Pim Kallisvaart - LinkedIn