What if inner peace has nothing to do with spiritual experiences, self-improvement, or finding the “right” path?

In this episode of The Thinning, Steven Martin sits down with trauma recovery guide Laura Giles for a wide-ranging, grounded conversation about why so many sincere seekers still feel unsettled—and what might actually be missing. Laura challenges the culture of instant gurus and peak experiences, arguing that peace isn’t something we acquire from outside ourselves, but something that emerges when we feel safe, connected, and no longer alone with what’s happened to us.

Together, they explore how everyday experiences like bullying, emotional neglect, and disconnection shape the nervous system; why trauma is less about what happens to us and more about facing it alone; and how attachment, not enlightenment, may be the real foundation for healing. Drawing from animist perspectives, trauma science, and lived experience, the conversation asks a quieter but more demanding question: does our spirituality actually help us live better with one another?

A thoughtful episode for anyone wary of easy answers—and curious about what peace might look like when certainty loosens.